Q about tuning

[PrietoBass]

Hello!

I started playing the bass about two months ago, when I bought a starter Ibanez 4-string bass. When I tune it, I notice that the D & G strings are easier to tune, but the A & E strings are a little harder... I use a Korg CA-30 tuner, connected to the bass through a 6' monster cable. The D & G strings hold steady right at the correct pitch, while the A jumps around a little but I can finally get it there. The E string however, seems to jump all over the place, even though it finally sets on the middle of the tuner dial.

Also, when I come back, say, after a day, I notice that both the E & A strings have gone out of tune (sharper).

When I tune my bass, am I plucking the E string incorrectly (given that it is the last one up and there is no other string I can "measure" my stroke against, like with the other strings)? Is this just because this is a "cheap" bass? Why do the strings seem to get "sharper" from one day to the next?

Thx!

[BassChuck]

It's difficult to say without seeing the bass. But I will say that when my strings act like this its one indication that they need to be replaced. New strings will go directly to pitch while older worn out strings will go sharp and then settle to pitch.

[Lobster11]

A couple of other thoughts that might help:

First, be sure when tuning that when you pluck a string -- especially the A or E -- you are muting the other strings. Lay your left hand fingers over the other strings to deaden them when you pluck. The tuner will get confused if you let other strings ring sympathetically with the one you're plucking.

Second, the main thing that causes tuning to vary over time is climate, i.e. temperature and humidity. These changes can be especially problematic in the Spring and Fall, when you might have the heat or AC on one day and then have all your windows open the next. If that's the case, there's nothing to worry about.

[backline112]

I have the same problems. I attribute them to temperature changes. We don't use Air conditioner or heater because it's too expensive. I've also seen that older strings are harder to tune. So yeah, might be a combination of both.
I don't want to make another thread for this simple question, but I don't want to steal thread either: Could anyone tell me how come when one tunes a string, the others don't detune?

[onlyclave]

I attribute it to a cheap plastic nut. When you are tuning, the first thing you should do with the key is turn the pitch down below the target pitch and then tune back up to it. What this does is it releases tension between the nut and the tuning machine. What you are describing when the string goes sharp over time is a textbook example of the tension above the nut causing the string to slip through it over time and making it go sharp.

Also, the stability of the note on the E and A strings can be a result of the overtones inherent in your bass. If you can't get the tuner to lock onto the open pitch then tune the first stable harmonic, the octave at the 12th fret.

[backline112]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

I attribute it to a cheap plastic nut. When you are tuning, the first thing you should do with the key is turn the pitch down below the target pitch and then tune back up to it. What this does is it releases tension between the nut and the tuning machine. What you are describing when the string goes sharp over time is a textbook example of the tension above the nut causing the string to slip through it over time and making it go sharp.

Also, the stability of the note on the E and A strings can be a result of the overtones inherent in your bass. If you can't get the tuner to lock onto the open pitch then tune the first stable harmonic, the octave at the 12th fret.

Wait, really? I never thought a 10,000 year Ivory nut would be more useful than a plastic one.
I also turn the tuning peg down before tuning up, so the string stays tight on the tuning machine.

[Lobster11]

Originally Posted by backline112

I don't want to make another thread for this simple question, but I don't want to steal thread either: Could anyone tell me how come when one tunes a string, the others don't detune?

I don't claim any particular expertise on this, but my guess would be that because tuning adjustments are typically quite small, the change in string tension usually isn't sufficient to change the neck relief by a noticeable amount. However, if you make a bigger adjustment to one string -- try de-tuning your E string a few steps -- it will affect the others.

[Deacon_Blues]

My own theory on this is when you pluck a note, you stretch the string, and as the string length is different when it's bowed (vibrating) or straight, you have a change in frequency as the vibrations decay. This effect is mostly negligible, but noticeable especially if you pluck really hard and the string tension is low. The starting pitch is higher than the ending pitch.

That the tuning gets sharp has a lot to do with the temperature and humidity as already mentioned. As you play, your hands warm up the strings which makes them looser.

[PrietoBass]

Thanks all for your responses.

I have learned about how important it is to always "tune up" so I always loosen the string a bit and then tune up to the correct pitch.

I suspected humidity and temperature too, because in our family room where we normally practice we shut off the heater at night and the temperature can go into the 50's (F) at night and then up to 70's (F) during the day.

I will look at various things:
1) Don't pluck the strings too hard.
2) Plastic nut; can I upgrade it at low cost? ('cause I'm not paying more to upgrade the nut than it cost me to get the bass...)
3) strings; I just went to the Guitar Center web site and they have some apparently good strings that last a long time and have good tone and only cost like $20; so maybe a string upgrade might be in the works.
4) I'm currently looking for an instructor, so once I find one and start taking lessons I'll bring this topic up in case I haven't found a solution yet.

Marcé

[PrietoBass]

Hi again,

I don't know if this might help, but I looked up the bass on this web site: https://cs.hoshinogakki.co.jp/i-publ...es/Login00.jsp

Based on the decals on the back, it is an Ibanez GSR90JH-BK s/n J050651158, so it was made in Indonesia at the Sejung factory in June of 2005.

Marcé

[BassMan7530]

The E and A strings "jumping around" may simply be caused by the quality of the instrument or the quality of the tuner. For instance, a more expensive bass will be more likely to stay in tune longer (this is obvious, though). Also, my tuner is terrible and jumps arounda a lot, but my guitarist's tuner's needle is always steady and precise.

I'm not sure why the strings would become sharp over-time; my first assumption would be cold weather contracting the woods in the bass, but onlyclave gave a good explanation above as well. I always make sure to tune below, then tune up to the correct pitch.

Lastly, although there is no other string above the E to "measure" your stroke against, you DO have your thumb. The distance between the G-D, the D-A, the A-E, and the E and your thumb which you use for anchoring on the corner of the pickup should all have consistent distance (this is a very important factor to observe when looking to purchasing a bass; without this consistency, moving from anchoring from the pickup to the top string may feel awkward).

One thing you should get used to doing is isolating the string you are tuning. I would advise you mute all strings except the one you are tuning. For instance, if you were to tune your A, you would mute the E with your thumb, and mute the G and D with your other plucking-hand fingers, and turn the knobs with your other hand. This makes tuning easier and more accurate. Hopefully this has helped you out.

[D Rokk]

this would be a wonderful time to learn to tune by harmonics.. a favorite trick of mine and much better than a tuner..

as i'm a bad teacher i hope some other tb'r jumps on here and explains how to do it

[JTE]

Don't be afraid to use the 12th fret harmonic to tune with an electronic tuner. The way the tuner works, it's counting the strings' vibrations and comparing that to an internal clock. When it's looking at an A note, it's looking at some even multiple of 440 Hz. So, if you use the open A at 55 Hz, it doesn't have a very big sample, but if you use the 12th fret harmonic, it's now 110 Hz and that gives it a better sample rate. Plus it removes a lot of the string arc from the equation too.

And, it's important to understand that the 12th fret HARMONIC and the open string WILL be in tune with each other. The fretted note at the 12th fret may be off, but unless the string is worn, it's simply physics of a vibrating string that the harmonic at the mid point will be exactly one octave higher.

jte

[bassinplace]

Ditch the machine. Use your ears.

[PrietoBass]

Ok, tuning to the 12th harmonic is much more accurate than tuning to the open string. All things considered, I'm happy.

The shop put new strings on the base. When I replace the strings in a few months or so I will also have the plastic nut replaced. But that's as far as I'll go with this bass... hopefully I can upgrade to a better unit sometime soon.

And speaking of strings, what would be a good set when it's time to replace them? What should I look for? Any recommendations?

Thx!

[Auzzie-Phoenix]

Depends on the sound you want. You'll get a different sound out of every set of strings you play, but changing between roundwound, half-round, or flat will definitely change things up a bit.

If you currently use roundwound strings (look at package of what you're using now to determine type of strings), I would personally suggest D'addario EXL-170 nickel roundwounds. I've had good luck with them and not had a dead string out of the pack yet, and they have a warm sound to them. Keep in mind that you need to match the strings to the scale of the neck (longer strings can be cut shorter if needed though).

There are several threads about strings in the forums, might want to take a look at some of them to determine which type of string suits your desired tone/style of playing.

[PrietoBass]

Hi! I don't know what strings my bass currently has; the shop just put new strings on this bass. I'll ask them and also check the threads on this forum.

Thx!

When you play a low E string too hard while your tuning, it sometimes raises in pitch until the intensity of the vibration settles down a bit. In other words when you play it too hard, or even just quite hard, it goes a bit sharper than when you play it soft. I've definitely noticed this. When you tune, you should play the strings in a controlled manner so you get a clear tone but you don't make the pitch wobble. This keeps the low e string consistent while you tune.

Ultimately, the best way to tune in my opinion is to use the beating of two notes rather than pitch recognition - I've found this to be the most accurate way and actually a useful thing about this is that you can even do it while there's distracting noise going on especially if the drummer has left his snare drum on. You can actually use the snare drum to help you tune as it amplifies the rhythm of the beating caused by playing two notes that are very close in pitch but not exactly the same. The beating starts off fast and as you bring the notes closer together it gets slower and slower, until the snare is continually vibrating at the same intensity, (no beating). Then your in tune. You can hear this without the snare drum too, but the snare amplifies it a lot and makes it easy to learn what you're looking out for.

It sounds strange that your guitar is going sharp. I've never heard of that. Normally the way to tune is to tune down, THEN up, but this prevents against the string inadvertently going flat, not sharp. Indeed, sounds like the problem may be with the nut - not all of the tension you put on with the tuners is making its way past the nut to the strings. I don't know how you can solve this other than to buy a better bass guitar. It sounds like something is badly wrong with the one you've got.

Originally Posted by backline112

I have the same problems. I attribute them to temperature changes. We don't use Air conditioner or heater because it's too expensive. I've also seen that older strings are harder to tune. So yeah, might be a combination of both.
I don't want to make another thread for this simple question, but I don't want to steal thread either: Could anyone tell me how come when one tunes a string, the others don't detune?

In my experience if you adjust one string, it DOES affect the others, proportional to how big the change is. Even drop D tuning affects the other strings noticeably I've found.

[PrietoBass]

Thanks for your comments. I think the going sharp overnight is due to temp/humidity problems. I just found out that if I warm up the strings by rubbing a piece of cloth a few times, when I tune they're not sharp. And tuning to the 12th string harmonic is now yielding better results than before.

I spoke to the guys @ GC and I was told I could trade in my bass and receive credit towards a better model. So maybe in a few months I'll go for it.