A question about Cmaj7 Chord....etc

[Chili]

i am learning all the modes, so far i no 4, the ionian mode (major scale), the dorian mode, phrygian and lydian. When i jam along to random songs on t.v, once i've found the root, phrygian and mixolydion seem to work in pretty much any situation, but anyway, i'm learning from a book which modes work best with what, so on the first example it gives me, it says, the C ionian mode over the Cmaj7 chord, what does the 7 mean? i no what a major chord is and i no the major scale, but i dont understand why the 7 is there.

also, as i get more used to the other modes it will probably become more clear, but i usually just use the phryigian and mixolydian modes since they work pretty much all the time, but how do the other modes work? like when i try to use the dorian mode, it doesnt see to fit to well, unless i'm just passing through dorian and going back to the root or something.

[liltommyg]

The 7 in this case is the seventh note in the major scale ie B.
Cmaj7 has the notes - C,E,G,B - Root, Third, Fifth & Seventh.
The dorian mode has a minor third and this can sound a bit off if the chords are major.

[j.a.e.r.i.p]

The 7 is there to show which notes are in the chord. so just Cmaj would be a triad, C,E,G. Cmaj7 tells chordal instruments to add a B on top of the triad. So your still obviously in Cmajor you might just want to play using the seventh more than normal.

[middy]

It's odd that you find phrygian to work so often. The minor second sounds werid to me, usually.

Cmaj7 means it's a major triad (C E G) plus the "major 7th" note, or the seventh note of the major scale (B).

[Chipsonfire]

If I remember my music theory correctly, the 7 means its a seventh chord, so instead of just having the 1st, 3rd and 5th, you also have a 7th. ie in the Ionian it would be C, E, G and B rather than just C, E, and G. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning this myself.

::edit:: I guess I need to post faster lol. Good to know I'm not talking out of my *** though

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by j.a.e.r.i.p

The 7 is there to show which notes are in the chord. so just Cmaj would be a triad, C,E,G. Cmaj7 tells chordal instruments to add a B on top of the triad. So your still obviously in Cmajor you might just want to play using the seventh more than normal.

This is somewhat misleading

Cmaj7 means C (major) - with a major 7th (maj7).
C means C (major)
C7 means C (major) - with a minor 7th (dominant 7th) or mixolidian mode.

The root is assumed to be major unless otherwise stated and the 7th is assumed to be minor unless otherwise stated.

My correction being (maj) refers to the 7th not the quality of the chord...

Edit: This is no single accepted method for chord notations so a good book would show different variations you might come across.

[Andrew Jones]

Am I right by thinking the original poster is playing Prygian by starting on the 3rd? Mixo on the 5th IE he's playing out of the Ionian mode but just starting on different notes?



Aj

[Chili]

so the notes in a Cmaj7 chord are C, G, B right? or C, E, B and the notes in Cm7 are, C, G, A sharp, or C, D sharp, A Sharp.

also i'm not 100% sure i'm using modes right, just say i'm playing along to a song in the key of A major, the 5th will be E, so thats basicly the E Mixolydian mode right? and i could use the 3rd, C sharp, so that would be the phrygian mode right? i've got a feeling i'm doing this wrong lol

[Chipsonfire]

Originally Posted by Chili

so the notes in a Cmaj7 chord are C, G, B right? or C, E, B and the notes in Cm7 are, C, G, A sharp, or C, D sharp, A Sharp.

7th chords like Cmaj7 have 4 notes in them. The Cmaj7, I believe, would be C, E, G and B, not some combination of 3. As for the modes, I have no idea, I'm still learning that myself

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Chili

so the notes in a Cmaj7 chord are C, G, B right? or C, E, B and the notes in Cm7 are, C, G, A sharp, or C, D sharp, A Sharp.

Cmaj7 - C E G B
Cm7 - C Eb G Bb

Originally Posted by Chili

also i'm not 100% sure i'm using modes right, just say i'm playing along to a song in the key of A major, the 5th will be E, so thats basicly the E Mixolydian mode right?

Yes E F# G# A B C# D E

Originally Posted by Chili

and i could use the 3rd, which is the relative major, so it would be the C ionian mode, i've got a feeling i'm doing this wrong lol

I have a feeling your doing this wrong too. the 3rd of what? relative major of what?

The modes are simply a major scale (ionian) starting on each individual note of the scale. As an example in the key of A, mixolidian starts on E but uses the notes of an A major or Ionian scale.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

Cmaj7 - C E G B
Cm7 - C Eb G Bb



Yes



I have a feeling your doing this wrong too. the 3rd of what? relative major of what?

The modes are simply a major scale (ionian) starting on each individual note of the scale. As an example in the key of A, mixolidian starts on E but uses the notes of an A major or Ionian scale.

oh, i was getting confused on the last part, i've re-typed it, so is it right now?

also, so the C major chord has the notes, C, E, G, C, and the C major7 has, C, E, G, B. but just say i strummed C, G, B and E on the g string, that would be strumming a C major7 chord....

and so about the modes, of all the 7 modes, they all work best over a certain chord, so what i need todo now is learn what they work best with right?

also, say a song is in C minor, the modes would sill be the same right? exept in A minor, phrygian would now be the 5th and not the 3rd.
and 3rd of A minor is the ionian mode, basicly the major scale

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Chili

also i'm not 100% sure i'm using modes right, just say i'm playing along to a song in the key of A major, the 5th will be E, so thats basicly the E Mixolydian mode right? and i could use the 3rd, C sharp, so that would be the phrygian mode right? i've got a feeling i'm doing this wrong lol

Yes that is a correct statement, but remember when you are using modes based on a certain key in your example A major or A Ionian, all the notes are the same the only thing that changes is your starting note....

A B C# D E F# G# A B C# D E F# G# A

E to E is mixolidian, C# to C# is phrigian....understand now?

[Wes]

So what does this mean when playing bass to the guitarist? If he has wrote his chord notation as Cmaj are you still able to play any of the notes in the Ionian mode? And if he has wrote it as Cmaj7 are you still able to play any of the notes in the Ionian mode?

Is the only difference that certain notes in the mode sound better? Like the 7th for Cmaj7.

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Wes

So what does this mean when playing bass to the guitarist? If he has wrote his chord notation as Cmaj are you still able to play any of the notes in the Ionian mode? And if he has wrote it as Cmaj7 are you still able to play any of the notes in the Ionian mode?

Is the only difference that certain notes in the mode sound better? Like the 7th for Cmaj7.

If he wrote "Cmaj", he probably meant C E G (again the maj is not neccessary it is implied when you write "C") in that case if you were in the key of C then yes you'd use ionian. If the C functioned as a (five) chord in the key of F you would most likely use C mixolidian.

There are times when these general runs can be broken but the above info is good for someone just figuring this stuff out.

[peterpalmieri]

I'd make a suggestion. A good book will not only allow you to get these answers but help you better understand how to use them in the context of different types of music.

[Wes]

No but what I mean is say the C was the first degree of the scale; so it's Ionian. What's the difference if it's Cmaj or Cmaj7 for the bass player?

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Wes

No but what I mean is say the C was the first degree of the scale; so it's Ionian. What's the difference if it's Cmaj or Cmaj7 for the bass player?

That means the chord is C E G or C E G B respectively. The scale is C E G A B C regardless....

If your building a bassline you want to do not want to accent the 7th or the B if it is not implied in the chord and if you did it would be considered a passing tone.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

Yes that is a correct statement, but remember when you are using modes based on a certain key in your example A major or A Ionian, all the notes are the same the only thing that changes is your starting note....

A B C# D E F# G# A B C# D E F# G# A

E to E is mixolidian, C# to C# is phrigian....understand now?

yeah thx , so i'm assuming if your soloing or just jamming, you can change from mode to mode, like start using the mixolydian mode in C, and end back on the root or on the 3rd, and then start using the phrygian mode.

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Chili

yeah thx , so i'm assuming if your soloing or just jamming, you can change from mode to mode, like start using the mixolydian mode in C, and end back on the root or on the 3rd, and then start using the phrygian mode.

Absolutely as long as it sounds good!

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Chili

yeah thx , so i'm assuming if your soloing or just jamming, you can change from mode to mode, like start using the mixolydian mode in C, and end back on the root or on the 3rd, and then start using the phrygian mode.

What are you doing different when you change modes they are all the same notes?

Modes alone are not the answer, you have to know the chord tones. Each mode has associated chord which again has chord tones. That's where the sound of the mode comes from. Like playing C Ionian over the CMa7 chord. You play every mode in C major they all have the note F and the note F is the Avoid note in C Ionian. Well its a avoid note no matter what mode you play. So just switch modes isn't buying you anything, you have know what notes to emphasize.

Now you say use phrygian why would you say that??? What are you doing different than when you are playing Ionian. Now CMa7 chord, one of the chord subsitutions for a ma7 chord is the III chord of the scale. So the III is Emi7 and Phrygian is the III mode it is a good choice. But how do you make is sound different than Ionian, you emphaize the notes of Emi7.

So your suggestion of Phrygian was right, but it was an incomplete answer. If you don't know why you are using phrygian and which notes to make it sound Phrygian your just playing Ionian starting on a different note.