Question about connecting scales

[Akeno]

I've always liked jamming better or improvising rather than just playing exactly what the sheet music says.

But I'm still fairly new to jamming or improvising, so I have a few questions.

One question that's been bothering me is:
I'm wondering if I have to do the root note first when the chord changes?
For example, if a chord progression went like this:

C C C C F F F F G G G G

So I know that I can do anything in the C major scale during the time that it is the 4 beats of the C chord.
But when the chord switches to F chord, do I also have to play the root note, which would be F, when the chord changes? Or can I just go anywhere within the F scale.

I'm still not sure how to "connect" these different scales. Whenever I try to jam, everytime I move from a C scale to a different scale like the F scale; it just sounds like I'm playing in a higher key; so it doesn't sound like it's flowing.

I hope my question made sense; I tried my best to explain >.<;

[Ezbass]

Originally Posted by Akeno

One question that's been bothering me is:
I'm wondering if I have to do the root note first when the chord changes?
For example, if a chord progression went like this:

C C C C F F F F G G G G

So I know that I can do anything in the C major scale during the time that it is the 4 beats of the C chord.
But when the chord switches to F chord, do I also have to play the root note, which would be F, when the chord changes? Or can I just go anywhere within the F scale.>.<;

You can play any note in the scale if you wish provided that you outline the chord being played i.e. if walking in C to F this would work (in 4:4 one note per beat);

Over the C- C E G F C(8ve) Bb A G
Over the F- Eb C Bb G Bb G Bb B

The trick is to make your movement from scale to scale smooth with no wild jumps (unless going to the root)

However, this may not always work if the melody instruments are leaving out the root in their chord voicings, as the scale you play may change the nature of the intended chord. Trial and error is the best way to find out with initial practice at home to backing tracks, CDs, etc. If when you try it live and it doesn't work you'll hear it and see it in your bandmates faces. In this case tell them that it's harmonically correct in an authoritative manner, but make sure you use the root as a starting place for that scale over that chrod next time round

[cowsgomoo]

(note: this advice is based on learning to play diatonically..i.e. notes and chords from entirely within a single key... all the 'rules' below can be broken, but it should be taken a basic starting point for thinking about note choices, not the final word on the subject)

you'll usually play notes that are in the key of the tune... so when you switch to that F chord, your first scale to consider wouldn't be F major, but the notes from the key of the tune you're playing, which is C major (C,F & G are the primary chords of C major)... in other words, the SAME notes as the scale you've just played over... if you really must have a scale to play over that F chord, try F Lydian, (as it has the B natural that is native to the key you're in)..the reason it sounds like you're changing key when you move to F is that you're implying a key change with the note Bb... don't do that!

use the SAME set of notes as the scale you used over the C chord

what makes the difference is not the scale itself... (think of a scale as a pool of notes you can choose from, rather than a linear thing to whizz up and down), but the strength and meaning of particular notes from that scale when played against the sound of a particular chord... so over the chord of F, you'd still choose from the notes of the underlying key: C major (C, D, E, F, G, A, B), but you'd emphasise different notes

I always say this, but I think it's worth restating: your job as a bass player is outline the basic harmony and rhythm of a piece.. so your bassline ought to clearly show everyone the chords and chord movement

what this means in relation to your question is this: you ought to choose notes that show the chords and how the chords are changing... so although you can play any note from F Lydian over that F chord, you ought probably to emphasise notes that clearly define what the chord is... which is why we bass players spend so much time on the root, 3rd and 5th of a chord... we're doing our job!

don't think all notes have equal meaning and value, because they don't... I would advise you on steering away from thinking about scales over chords, and think more about arpeggios WITHIN scales over chords

and scalar basslines tend to work best when they're functional
... i.e you're not just whizzing up and down a scale for the sake of it, but using it to show chord movement, or to underline part of a melody, or to play countpoint to a melody... just remember to serve purpose of the tune in some way, not just your bass player ego, so always think about what the point is of doing what you're doing!

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by Ezbass

You can play any note in the scale if you wish provided that you outline the chord being played i.e. if walking in C to F this would work (in 4:4 one note per beat);

Over the C- C E G F C(8ve) Bb A G
Over the F- Eb C Bb G Bb G Bb B

The trick is to make your movement from scale to scale smooth with no wild jumps (unless going to the root)

However, this may not always work if the melody instruments are leaving out the root in their chord voicings, as the scale you play may change the nature of the intended chord. Trial and error is the best way to find out with initial practice at home to backing tracks, CDs, etc. If when you try it live and it doesn't work you'll hear it and see it in your bandmates faces. In this case tell them that it's harmonically correct in an authoritative manner, but make sure you use the root as a starting place for that scale over that chrod next time round

it might help the original poster if you explained why you recommend the use of Bb instead of B over a C chord in the key of C major

similarly, he might want to know why you recommend Eb over an F chord in the key of C major

are you making a 'jazz assumption'?? i.e that all major chords should be treated as dominant 7 chords... we don't know he's attempting to play anything remotely jazz inflected

[Ezbass]

Originally Posted by cowsgomoo

it might help the original poster if you explained why you recommend the use of Bb instead of B over a C chord in the key of C major

similarly, he might want to know why you recommend Eb over an F chord in the key of C major

are you making a 'jazz assumption'?? i.e that all major chords should be treated as dominant 7 chords... we don't know he's attempting to play anything remotely jazz inflected

Good point well made. It wasn't mean't to be a jazz line particularly I just think b7ths sound better going down than maj7ths and there is the immediate relationship to the Fmaj too. As I tried to say it's a case of using your ears to what sounds best to you and (IMHO) I thought this was a reasonable line to suggest for a 2 chord vamp.

[MarkTAW]

1. You don't play scales tones, you play chord tones. Whatever note you play becomes part of the chord by virtue of you playing it, but you should stick to the the notes in the chord when starting out & branch out slowly.

2. You don't have to hit the root at the beginning of each chord change, but it really serves the chord well if you do. When you don't, you should have a reason for not doing this.

3. Once you're comfortable playing the chord tones, you can branch out into other notes. Major sixth are popular, and if you can figure out how to use sevenths (major & minor), fourths and seconds - excellent. Otherwise don't worry about it.

4. You can try connecting chords by playing notes that lead from one chord to another. For example C E G -> F A C has a C in common. The C is the fifth of F and is a nice way to lead into the F. G B D an C E G have G in common - same deal here. There are millions of other ways to do this, but this is a good, simple way of thinking about it.

[Akeno]

Ok I think I'm starting to understand.
I get the general feelilng that I should not play the scale, but the 1-3-5 of the chord.

I'll try this out
Thank you