Question about neighboring tones

SSINTENSE · #1 11-10-2009, 04:09 PM

Hey all, i'm taking a music theory class and have this assignment dealing with cadences and nonharmonic tones. I have one question where the chord seems to be resolving from a ii to a iii and the nonharmonic tone looks to be a neighboring tone (it is one step higher than the highest note in both the ii and the iii and in between the 2). From all the examples I was given about neighboring tones it seemed that the second chord has to be the same as the first. I am pretty sure this isn't the case but would like to know for sure. Please let me know if the second chord can be different but have a similar note as the first chord to make the nonharmonic tone a NT.

Thanks!

onlyclave · #2 11-10-2009, 04:56 PM

Sure. Take a plagal cadence for example (IV-I). Put the IV chord in second inversion (IV6/4) and resolve to a root position I but suspend the root of the IV chord and then resolve down by step. Voila! Suspension.

I'll try to write it out:

A G G
F F--E <The F in that context is a NHT, specifically a suspension.
C C C

Now to address the first part of your post, I don't think the ii is resolving to a iii. Subdominant > Mediant isn't common. Stack up your thirds and check your chords again. ii goes to IV, vii and V typically in first year theory classes.

MarkTAW · #3 11-10-2009, 05:19 PM

I'm not sure about the terminology you're using (not because you're using it wrong, just because I don't know what a "neighboring tone" is - but I wikipedia'd it so now I'm an expert), but there are a few different ways to use non chord tones.

A suspension -a non-chord tone that resolves to the same chord - is one.

An anticipation - borrowing a note from the next chord - is another.

E.g. Suspension - resolves to same chord. Anticipation - resolves to another chord.

It sounds like you're looking at an anticipation - are you sure the note doesn't belong to the 2nd chord (and perhaps this is what's causing your confusion about the true nature of the 2nd chord as well?).

MarkTAW · #4 11-10-2009, 05:24 PM

Also, a note isn't generally "in between" the two chords, it's part of the first chord. Or more properly, you're looking at 3 chords. Just because the little dots aren't written underneath that note doesn't mean that they're not still sounding out.

SSINTENSE · #5 11-11-2009, 12:24 PM

Thanks for the help guys. Another question - if I have a triad A E F# and C in the key of em, I know that is a iv but is it iv6 because of the F#? I can't find an answer to this anywhere because the examples that my instructor gave were all very simple and did not include notes outside of the triad.

Thanks in advance!

EADG mx · #6 11-11-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSINTENSE

Thanks for the help guys. Another question - if I have a triad A E F# and C in the key of em, I know that is a iv but is it iv6 because of the F#? I can't find an answer to this anywhere because the examples that my instructor gave were all very simple and did not include notes outside of the triad.

Thanks in advance!

That could be F#m7b5 in first inversion.

SSINTENSE · #7 11-11-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EADG mx

That could be F#m7b5 in first inversion.

Good call. I think you are right because the last chord is a v so this cadence would still work (every example is a cadence and this one must be a half cadence). Thanks!

I have a really tricky one (last one in the assignment) I can't figure out. The key is either eflat minor or Ab (can't tell) and the two chords are C-Bb-Db-F and then C-Bb-C-E. After the second chord is voiced the E is stepped down to a D#. I'm pretty sure this is a suspension so would the resulting second chord be C -Bb-C-D#? I don't know how to voice that.

SSINTENSE · #8 11-11-2009, 12:39 PM

Would it be a v to vi if in eflat minor making this a deceptive cadence? The second chord is really messing me up. There seems to be no 5th.

EADG mx · #9 11-11-2009, 12:40 PM

Is this in 4-part writing?

Edit: if so, there doesn't necessarily have to be a 5th in some chords.

SSINTENSE · #10 11-11-2009, 12:41 PM

EADG mx · #11 11-11-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSINTENSE

the two chords are C-Bb-Db-F and then C-Bb-C-E. After the second chord is voiced the E is stepped down to a D#. I'm pretty sure this is a suspension so would the resulting second chord be C -Bb-C-D#? I don't know how to voice that.

Ok, here's my best guess:

Let's assume C is a pedal tone

C-Bb-Db-F: Bbm/C (iv)

C-Bb-C-E: C7 (V)

C-Bb-C-Eb: Cm7 (v)

SSINTENSE · #12 11-11-2009, 12:47 PM

gotya. Then I think that should do it.

I have another one in A with chords A - E - C - E and E - E - D - G. Since 4 part doesn't have to have a 5th then I imagine this is in fact in the key of A with a I - V progression. Just making sure - this is a half cadence correct? Lol I just went back and noticed I didn't fill this one out but this is the last one I have blank.

SSINTENSE · #13 11-11-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Ok, here's my best guess:

Let's assume C is a pedal tone

C-Bb-Db-F: Bbm/C (iv)

C-Bb-C-E: C7 (V)

C-Bb-C-Eb: Cm7 (v)

Yup - I noticed that C was definitely a pedal tone. Just couldn't tell what the voicing of the chords were. Thanks for catching me on my mistake i counted one ahead!

RhinoBass · #14 11-11-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EADG mx

That could be F#m7b5 in first inversion.

That chord with a C key signature screams tritone sub.

EADG mx · #15 11-11-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSINTENSE

gotya. Then I think that should do it.

I have another one in A with chords A - E - C - E and E - E - D - G. Since 4 part doesn't have to have a 5th then I imagine this is in fact in the key of A with a I - V progression. Just making sure - this is a half cadence correct? Lol I just went back and noticed I didn't fill this one out but this is the last one I have blank.

That would work in A minor (i-v), not in A major.

In A major, at least the I chord (and very often the V) would have a major 3rd.

onlyclave · #16 11-11-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSINTENSE

Thanks for the help guys. Another question - if I have a triad A E F# and C in the key of em, I know that is a iv but is it iv6 because of the F#? I can't find an answer to this anywhere because the examples that my instructor gave were all very simple and did not include notes outside of the triad.

Thanks in advance!

That's a ii half dim 7 in e minor. Diminished chords are typically found in first inversion. The RNA symbol to used is iiØ6/5