Question for all you Berklee grads and students.

capnsandwich · #1 01-06-2010, 03:33 PM

OK, I'm thinking about doing the online Berklee thing and getting either a Professional Certificate or a Specialist Certificate. The Pro Certificate requires 5 courses and the Specialist requires 3.

My question is this: what does a certificate do for you in the real world of bass playing? I know I'll probably learn a lot more than I already know but some I'll know already. Besides that though, will it help me get more gigs, help me get a music related job, etc.?

Just wondering. I'd like to know what I'm getting into before I get into it. That's an expensive mistake to make if it is a mistake. It could very well be a wonderful thing for me but I won't know until I learn a little more.

**Freddels** · #2 01-06-2010, 05:10 PM

I have no idea what a certificate from online instruction will get you in the real world. But I suspect that with it and $2, you can get a cup of coffee.

Seriously, if it's some course of study that you're interested in and there's nobody local that can teach it to you, then go ahead and take it, but I don't think a certificate will get you anything just b/c you have it.

MNAirHead · #3 01-06-2010, 05:15 PM

If interested in Berklee feedback.. PM me I can link you to a teacher who attended.

I know both he and I get paid the same (if that matters).

(I'm not qualified by your OP criteria)... I'd put the cash into training videos.. groove, theory, relativity etc.... we have local music schools who offer theory classes for $250.. an other one teaches diatonic song writing for $350..

capnsandwich · #4 01-06-2010, 05:23 PM

So really, you think I'd just be paying for a piece of paper that says "Berklee" on it? I was thinking of Capital University Conservatory of Music, since it's local and has a great music school. A friend of mine who studied drums and percussion there is now the bassist for David Wells, a smooth jazz composer. Most of the guys who go there usually get decent gigs. They have a great job placement program and have links to a number of national acts and touring gigs. The only problem is that I'm a full time factory worker and have a family with 2 kids so college would be almost impossible, at least while I'm at my job. their music program is EXTREMELY demanding.

**Freddels** · #5 01-06-2010, 06:14 PM

Well, even Berklee doesn't think it's worth the same as attending their school in person b/c they don't allow you to use those credits toward a real degree there. Even if you went to Berklee itself and got a degree you'd still have to prove yourself as a player for a gig b/c nobody will ask to see the degree and if you mention that you have it, they'll still want to hear you play.

Go to the local school if it's as good as you say. IMO, in person instruction is going to be better than online.

bass12 · #6 01-06-2010, 06:20 PM

I was always under the impression that one of the main benefits of going to Berklee was the connections made by attending in person.

**Freddels** · #7 01-06-2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass12

I was always under the impression that one of the main benefits of going to Berklee was the connections made by attending in person.

That's any school. You get an education and you make contacts.

capnsandwich · #8 01-07-2010, 03:49 PM

Bump this for more information from anyone else who may have experience with one of these Berklee certificates or other schools that have similar programs.

Hoover · #9 01-07-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddels

Even if you went to Berklee itself and got a degree you'd still have to prove yourself as a player for a gig b/c nobody will ask to see the degree and if you mention that you have it, they'll still want to hear you play.

This.

I graduated from Berklee with the full-on Bachelor Of Music Degree, and absolutely nothing has ever happened on the bandstand that that piece of paper allowed me to do that I wouldn't otherwise have been able to do even if I'd blown off all my academic classes, never turned in my homework on time, smoked crack for the entire final semester, crashed the graduation ceremony wearing nothing but ladies underwear, and been denied the degree.

The degree/diploma/certificate/sheepskin does one thing and one thing only: It tells people that you have the ability to see something through to completion.

So while that can be a valuable tool (and admittedly I've had a few jobs over the years that I certainly couldn't have gotten if I didn't have a college degree), it's not an implicitly valuable tool for getting performing gigs. Everything that I do on the bandstand comes from things I learned in spite of the degree, not because of it.

Which is not to say that I'm advocating not getting a degree/diploma/certificate, just that I think the experience will be way more useful than the token of achievement they dole out at the end.

capnsandwich · #10 01-07-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

This.

I graduated from Berklee with the full-on Bachelor Of Music Degree, and absolutely nothing has ever happened on the bandstand that that piece of paper allowed me to do that I wouldn't otherwise have been able to do even if I'd blown off all my academic classes, never turned in my homework on time, smoked crack for the entire final semester, crashed the graduation ceremony wearing nothing but ladies underwear, and been denied the degree.

The degree/diploma/certificate/sheepskin does one thing and one thing only: It tells people that you have the ability to see something through to completion.

So while that can be a valuable tool (and admittedly I've had a few jobs over the years that I certainly couldn't have gotten if I didn't have a college degree), it's not an implicitly valuable tool for getting performing gigs. Everything that I do on the bandstand comes from things I learned in spite of the degree, not because of it.

Which is not to say that I'm advocating not getting a degree/diploma/certificate, just that I think the experience will be way more useful than the token of achievement they dole out at the end.

I hear you on that. I know I could learn a bunch of stuff I don't already know, and some stuff I know already, but wouldn't the time in the cockpit with your instrument really help you out performance-wise? I know that when I play for a week straight with gigs and rehearsals like I did during the week between Christmas and New years, I could really feel my chops developing faster. So if I did that, say...for an entire duration of getting a college degree in bass performance, that would help my playing, wouldn't it?

Hoover · #11 01-07-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

So if I did that, say...for an entire duration of getting a college degree in bass performance, that would help my playing, wouldn't it?

Hells yeah.

rosstanium · #12 01-07-2010, 07:12 PM

+1 on Hoover's comments.

HaVIC5 · #13 01-08-2010, 10:28 AM

Speaking as a recent Berklee grad, from what I've seen, I personally think that their online material is way overpriced. The school itself is way overpriced, but you get invaluable benefits like the connections with teachers and students if you attend in person. I've been out of school for less than 6 months and living 500 miles away in DC, but the Boston network has come in handy for making connections/getting gigs here.

Online music education is good, but it pales in comparison with what you can be learning "on the scene".

kesslari · #14 01-08-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

I hear you on that. I know I could learn a bunch of stuff I don't already know, and some stuff I know already, but wouldn't the time in the cockpit with your instrument really help you out performance-wise? I know that when I play for a week straight with gigs and rehearsals like I did during the week between Christmas and New years, I could really feel my chops developing faster. So if I did that, say...for an entire duration of getting a college degree in bass performance, that would help my playing, wouldn't it?

Immersing yourself in a good, disciplined program of musical development - utterly worthwhile.

Getting a certificate for doing it (or not doing it, but going through the motions) - pretty worthless.

My experience - People who tout their certificates often lack the skills that go with them. People who develop the underlying skills let those skills speak for themselves, and don't tout the certs.

I went to BIT many, many years ago. In LA, MI had a bad reputation, because lots of pretty crappy and immature players would show up for auditions with GIT or BIT stickers all over their cases, BIT t-shirts, etc... and then couldn't play.
The cats who COULD play (and there were plenty of them, and they learned a lot at the school) showed up for auditions without GIT/BIT paraphernalia, and let their playing do the talking.

I went through a period where I pretty much refused to write music bios for myself, because of all the hype that people would put in. The bigger the hype, the worse the player, much of the time. So I took the attitude of "Listen, I can *tell* you anything, and it might be true, or it might not, but when time comes to play, either I can or I can't, and you'll know it immediately when you hear me."

Don't focus on the certificate - but if you're serious and can afford the time commitment, spending a year (or whatever you can manage) focused full time on learning music, in a good learning environment with great teachers, will be a huge win for you.

Good luck.

MNAirHead · #15 01-08-2010, 11:09 AM

I spoke to Korey (Berklee grad)

Overall his suggestion was to pick a quality school in the market you intend to gig in. His MA connections did not help him back in the Midwest.

There are always great conservatories who offer classes.

Berklee would be fun to put on a resume -- I'm unsure if they'd approve it since it was a computer class.

capnsandwich · #16 01-08-2010, 01:29 PM

Great advice everyone and thanks MNAirHead for getting in touch with y Korey and asking him those questions. What he said about going to a school in your own area makes a lot of sense. I'm here in the same town Capital University's in and they have a great music program from what I've heard and read about. Also, there's Ohio State, Ohio Wesleyan, and Otterbein University here as well. They all have music schools and I'm actively searching which one I should attend.

Thanks to everyone for their advice. Makes a lot of sense when I read it.