Question that I SHOULD know the answer to, but unfortunately don't.

[bellis1]

I'm playing with a cover band now days, and I learned a song in the original key. However, they play it in a different key, and when they were talking about it, I heard them mention, that one half step makes a huge difference, which got me wondering..

Is "changing the key" and putting a capo on a fret the same thing?

[MalcolmAmos]

The capo moves the nut - so yes it does change the key.

We have several songs the vocalist wants in F. The 6 string guys don't like F so they capo on the 3rd fret and use key of D chords. Works out to being in F. |D at the nut|D# at the first fret|E at the 2nd fret|F at the 3rd fret| so capo at the 3rd fret and play D chords - the capo changes it all into the key of F.

They just tell the bass it's in F.

[wemmick]

I suppose you could use a capo, but if it's just a half step or two you can also just move your hand up or down the fretboard as necessary. Because the intervals between strings is equal, the relative movement between strings & frets is the same.

The big caveat is that if there are open strings involved, you'll need to alter your fingering.

I've been practicing something that uses open E string a lot... and then want to play along with the original in which the band tuned down a half-step. No fingering adjustment will make a standard-tuned bass play a low E♭. I either have to play an octave up or re-tune.

[nealw]

It's not the same as changing the key-that is done all the time without a capo-it just allows the guitarist to change the key without altering his fingerings.

[lunarpollen]

one half step doesn't make a huge difference, it only creates the smallest possible key-change.

using a capo basically changes the key of music containing chord shapes that use open strings. My band does a few songs in A# so I use the capo on the first fret because it makes certain chords, drones, and transitions easier. When I play guitar I often use a capo because it allows for some beautiful sounding versions of chords that you don't normally hear on a non-capoed instrument.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by nealw

It's not the same as changing the key-that is done all the time without a capo-it just allows the guitarist to change the key without altering his fingerings.

^ This.

[bellis1]

So basically if the song was in Bb and now they are playing it in B, I play the same pattern, just moved a half step up?

[Staccato]

Originally Posted by wemmick

I suppose you could use a capo, but if it's just a half step or two you can also just move your hand up or down the fretboard as necessary. Because the intervals between strings is equal, the relative movement between strings & frets is the same.

This flew over my head. Break this down for some of us?

[WJGreer]

A capo has only the effect of changing the tonality of the open strings. You tune your bass E-A-D-G; if you put a capo on the second fret, the "open" tuning becomes F#-B-E-A. This does not affect the location of any of the other notes. The C at the third fret of the A string is in the same place it always was, for instance.

As has been said, guitarists use capos to make alternate notes available with open strings, which gives them fingering options not otherwise available to them. They don't really change the key, though.

One of the great things about stringed instruments is that intervals are intervals, wherever you find them on the board. For example, assuming your tuning is standard, the note on the same fret, but one string up, is always a fourth higher. The note two frets up on the same string is always a whole step higher. One string up and two frets back is always a minor third higher.

So, answering your question simply, yes - you really can just move your hand up or down two frets and achieve a whole step change in key in each direction.

[tekhedd]

With regard to the original question: Yes or no. If you move the location you play the song relative to the capo, yes it changes the key. If you do not, then no, the key does not change, just the location of the open strings.

I find that the biggest problem with a capo is making sudden jumps when the dots are not where they should be. Trying to train myself not to look down.

In these days where half the bands use detuning and the other half do not, I've taken to using a capo quite a lot. Gets me some funny looks, although I sure don't know why.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by tekhedd

With regard to the original question: Yes or no. If you move the location you play the song relative to the capo, yes it changes the key. If you do not, then no, the key does not change, just the location of the open strings.

True too. If you are redefining what the second fret is (for example) based on where you place the capo, the result will be that you play in a different key.

I can't imagine the mental horsepower necessary to do that on the fly, though. I sure don't have it!

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by bellis1

So basically if the song was in Bb and now they are playing it in B, I play the same pattern, just moved a half step up?

Basically, Yes, but remember that any open strings in the original pattern now have to be fretted somehow.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by lunarpollen

one half step doesn't make a huge difference, it only creates the smallest possible key-change.

True - but a semitone can make a big difference to a singer. If a singer can reasonably consistently hit, say, a C right at the top of their vocal range, ain't no way they can get a C#. The difference is bigger for a singer than many instrumentalists realise.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by bassybill

True - but a semitone can make a big difference to a singer.

Just ask Stevie Nicks.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Stacatto

This flew over my head. Break this down for some of us?

He's just saying that the fingering pattern for any flavor of scale or chord shape is the same regardless of what not you start on.
The bass (and many stringed instruments) is called a "symmetrical" instrument: once you learn the shape of a major scale, you can start it anywhere on the neck and always get a major scale, for example.

Naturally, patterns that use open strings must be adapted if moved.

Contrast to a piano, where the fingering pattern changes with each new key, or a guitar where the top 2 strings present a slight shift in the fingering.

[greggster59]

Our singer/guitarist always changes the key. Doesn't always tell us until the last minute, either. Usually it's a half step change in which case I just move over a fret and do the same patterns. In the case of Psycho Killer, the original is in A and we do it in E and the whole approach changes on bass, especially during the bridge.

[lunarpollen]

Originally Posted by bassybill

True - but a semitone can make a big difference to a singer. If a singer can reasonably consistently hit, say, a C right at the top of their vocal range, ain't no way they can get a C#. The difference is bigger for a singer than many instrumentalists realise.

Yeah, but that would only make a difference in those particular few songs that happened to have their highest note being a C# in that particular octave. I suppose that if as a band you strangely decide to do mostly songs that coincidentally have their highest vocal note a half step higher than the singer can handle, then it would make a big difference. But that would be a really unusual situation...

[MalcolmAmos]

It's just Tom and I. Tom will start a song in C and about four measures into it he decides that is not the right key for him so he will look over at me and say; Going to G".

I just move my major scale box pattern from the 8th fret to the 3rd fret and away we go.

Yes the whole box has to move and yes you do have to fret open strings.

[Rudreax]

No, it doesn't change the key of anything. It makes certain chords easier to play and allows one to play new chords, but simply adding the capo doesn't change any key.

[puddin tame]

this is why it's good to learn how notes work. so you aren't perplexed by stuff like this