Question Regarding Stacked Chords

[Bassman7PM]

I just read a quote from John Coltrane regarding being influenced by Miles Davis in a way that helped him develope his famous Sheets of Sound.

"Coltrane states; "In fact, due to the direct and free-flowing lines of his [Davis's] music, I found it easy to apply the harmonic ideas that I had. I could stack up chords-say, on a C7, I sometimes superimposed an E#b7, up to an F#7, [resolving] down to an F. That way I could play three chords on one..."

Sorry, my theory is a little rusty and I just don't get it, so help me out.

[mambo4]

hmm

first keep in mind that it's a sax player, so he is speaking about melody, the chords his melodies are based on, not simply stacking a bunch of chords in a harmonic fashion. And its Coltrane, who was know for pushing the envelope abit.

It seems to be a context of a C7-F, a basic V7-I resolution.

E#b7? is that a typo? Sure it wasn't Eb7? I will assume its Eb7.
Because moving a dominate chord riff in minor thirds is not uncommon in jazz.

lets spell the chords:

C	Eb	F#
E G	A#
G Bb	C#
Bb	Db	E

Notice how the Dominant 7th Bb(A#) shows up in all 3.

Eb7 also shares the 5th (G) while lowering the third, and adding a b9

F#7 also shares the third (E) while flatting the 9 (C#=Db) and flatting the 5 (F#=Gb) and/or raising the 11th

what Trane is essentially doing is altering the dominant in 2 different ways before resolving.
But rather than remember arpeggios and spellings for C7| Cm7b9 | C7b5b9, it is simpler to see it as C7 | Eb7 | F#7

but thats just a guess.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by mambo4

hmm

first keep in mind that it's a sax player, so he is speaking about melody, the chords his melodies are based on, not simply stacking a bunch of chords in a harmonic fashion. And its Coltrane, who was know for pushing the envelope abit.

It seems to be a context of a C7-F, a basic V7-I resolution.

E#b7? is that a typo? Sure it wasn't Eb7? I will assume its Eb7.
Because moving a dominate chord riff in minor thirds is not uncommon in jazz.

lets spell the chords:

C	Eb	F#
E G	A#
G Bb	C#
Bb	Db	E

Notice how the Dominant 7th Bb(A#) shows up in all 3.

Eb7 also shares the 5th (G) while lowering the third, and adding a b9

F#7 also shares the third (E) while flatting the 9 (C#=Db) and flatting the 5 (F#=Gb) and/or raising the 11th

what Trane is essentially doing is altering the dominant in 2 different ways before resolving.
But rather than remember arpeggios and spellings for C7| Cm7b9 | C7b5b9, it is simpler to see it as C7 | Eb7 | F#7

but thats just a guess.

Yes. you can complete this as a diminished pattern by adding A to the mix. See how SIMPLE chord tones can be to work with rather than too much dealing with scales?

[A440Hz]

Great post, Mambo.

OP, keep in mind that Coltrane is talking about some outside sounds that still retain some attachment to the base harmony. Obviously, F#7 has some real dissonance with C7 (like C & C#--rub city), but that's the sound he's going for.