questions for those who play in praise and worship bands

funkybass · #1 03-04-2009, 08:47 PM

For those who play in praise and worship bands i have a few questions. I just started playing with ours at church.

1. Do you get screwed up when the guitar players use capos? Our guitar players capo a lot of songs, and it really screws me up.

2. On the faster songs, do you find time to play things other than root, or R 5 8 things? The chords seem to change fast on some songs.

3. Do you play a 5 string? I'm debating of getting one.

tobie · #2 03-05-2009, 01:18 AM

1. Why, what exactly do you mean? As long as you play in the right key you shouldn't care what the guitar players do with their capo's;
2. Yes, but mostly not on the fly. I practice songs beforehand (if I know what will be played) which does make it easier. I guess it should not be too much of a challenge for more explerienced players though. Practice triplets etc. a lot and it will come easier during play.
3. No. But I've wished for lower notes more than once. If I can trade my 4-string for a fiver without paying in too much, I'll do it without a need to think about it first.

Chinguschild · #3 03-05-2009, 01:21 AM

I always sufficed with 4 strings. A few songs really needed me to tune to drop d but that always did the trick.

Also I have always played by ear so the capo thing doesnt throw me off too much if at all.

WalterBush · #4 03-05-2009, 01:27 AM

1) No. Our guitar players don't use capos. If they did, it would not affect what I did in the least.

2) Yes. So will you, if you want to and if you practice.

3) I play a fiver. We play a lot of tunes that require a low b, and sometimes a worship leader decides to change keys. The five string handles both situations without a hiccup.

MX21 · #5 03-13-2009, 12:33 PM

1) Our guitar players use capos a lot. Doesn't bother me. I try to learn most songs without using open strings, in case they change keys on me. Then all I have to do is move a couple frets and I'm good. Also helps to be using 5 string for those times when they play something in E or F and then decide to change the key down.

2) Yes. Get a recording, practice with it at home. I usually start with roots and 5ths and listen to what else it needs.

3) I play 5. It gives me more playfield, especially when playing in keys like D, E, or F. Plus tonally, I can get different sound if play higher frets on the B string versus lower frets on the E string. I don't use the really low notes very often, except maybe the D and D#.

JTE · #6 03-13-2009, 02:20 PM

1. No guitar player unless it's me. Capo makes certain keys work better. For example, to play a song where you need the folky sound of open strings ringing as the chords change, but you're playing in Ab, you need a capo.

2. Sure, if it's musical.

3. The 5 really helps a lot to add some muscle to the bass when playing with a Hammond organ. And since our praise band is bass, drums, and B3, that's critical. Plus we do a lot of stuff in Ab, Db, Eb, etc.

jte

**bassman314** · #7 03-13-2009, 02:37 PM

1) depends on the situation. If I'm playing a newer song off a chord chart, and the chord chart is written for capo? yeah, it can be a PITA to transpose in my head. Otherwise, not really.

2) playing root all the time is overrated

Seriously, though, you want to learn the scales for the keys you routinely play so well that you can play them with your eyes closed. You'll find yourself then using other notes in the scale that R 5 8 for transitions between chords, as well as playing a different note that the root.

3) I switched to a 5 banger about 5 years ago, and I haven't looked back. On a traditionally tuned 4-string, it's really hard to sound big when playing in the C# - Eb range. Having that nice, thick B-string makes a huge difference. Playing in F is also easier, as you can start from the 6th fret on the B-string, where the spread isn't as bad.

HogieWan · #8 03-13-2009, 02:52 PM

1) a guitarist using a capo can make it hard if you're trying to read his fingerboard for chords during the song - write them down or have the band leader get chords for everyone (in the right key for the instrument. Or are you talking about having chords in one key and the guitarist changes the key at the last minute by using his capo?

2) I usually use 1 and 3 more than 1 and 5 as it defines the chord better and usually gives better transitions to the next root. Learn basslines you like and dissect them, figure out how the line moves from one chord to the next and use the interesting ones in the correct key for different songs

3) I've always liked a 5-string. It's nice to go down to a D instead of always going up. However, use the B-string sparingly for the best effect

ThunderLizard · #9 03-13-2009, 02:53 PM

Funky-
Capo- Our guitarists use them. It doesn't impact what I do.
Root/Five- Most church music departments/programs will have written music scores, like a hymnal. Use the Bass Clef to get an idea of how the bass line works if you don't have a recording. If not, check in with the church's organist. The mcmbers of church band I play with has the highest degree of music knowledge of any band I've ever been in.
5 string- Lots of Gospel/Praise players use them. You might find a certain lick or pattern easier to copy if you have a 5. Maybe not. Every time I play a 5 string, I set myself back 20 years....trying to relearn what I already know.

SteveC · #10 03-13-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkybass

For those who play in praise and worship bands i have a few questions. I just started playing with ours at church.

1. Do you get screwed up when the guitar players use capos? Our guitar players capo a lot of songs, and it really screws me up.

2. On the faster songs, do you find time to play things other than root, or R 5 8 things? The chords seem to change fast on some songs.

3. Do you play a 5 string? I'm debating of getting one.

1 - Guitards and their capos for everything. No.
2 - I think I find time to play too much sometimes.
3 - Yes. Gotta have the low Eb and D for sure.

finalrequiem · #11 03-13-2009, 03:33 PM

+1 on the 5 string. 'Specially for Eb, D, and is handy for F as well, as someone else pointed out...

funkybass · #12 03-14-2009, 01:17 PM

[quote=bassman314;7112050]1) depends on the situation. If I'm playing a newer song off a chord chart, and the chord chart is written for capo? yeah, it can be a PITA to transpose in my head. Otherwise, not really.

We use chord charts, and they like to change keys on the fly, and transposing in my head on the spot is hard most of the time.

Ozzey · #13 03-14-2009, 02:05 PM

1. No, capos do not hinder or help me. I just try to do my best to learn by ear/prior knowledge to transpose or do whatever is required. My friends are usually the ones looking at my fretboard for chords hahaha (if they ever catch me playing the root note)

2. It really depends, with practice, I play more than the root and fifths, just trying to make it more musical I guess. Start experimenting with pentatonic scale, you can make some pretty sweet riffs with that.

3. I do not. I wish I had one though... but I think I would want to own both... the four has personal advantages for me

.

tjh · #14 03-15-2009, 03:55 PM

1 +1 to mimizing open strings when construcing bass parts, that makes my patterns 'movable' with lots of key changes, and that is inevitable with multiple worship leaders ...

2 keep it simple, and work within the parameters required for each tune to give it the flavor it needs ... playing with a variety of drummers, I find that what I do with one does not always work with all of them ... concentrate on locking in with your drummer to create a tight rthym section for the rest of the group.

3 I am very old, and never felt comfortable on a five the couple times I tried it with my arthritis, and a larger neck ... I have been able to make a 4 work, but I also work a lot with dramatic slides and right hand technique and variety to create a 'deeper' sound when needed ... if you are young and just starting, I would recommend a five, but I think a 4 can be made to work just fine ... worship music is not all about your bass gear, believe it or not

MarkMcCombs · #15 03-16-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozzey

1. No, capos do not hinder or help me. I just try to do my best to learn by ear/prior knowledge to transpose or do whatever is required. My friends are usually the ones looking at my fretboard for chords hahaha (if they ever catch me playing the root note)

I get the idea that you're joking; if not, you should be. There's no shame in playing the root on the downbeat in most music. Heck, some songs, or some measures in some songs, require that only the root be played. In fact, it's become common for bass players to KILL the groove of the song trying to get all tricky and show how many notes they can play.

I've been playing a few years, and recently have come to the understanding that our first job is to GROOVE, and that we should consider ourselves part of the Rhythm Section first, and add harmonic/melodic qualities second. Lock in, become as important to the rhythm of the song as the drums, and then outline the chords of the song.

My .02.....

jaywa · #16 03-16-2009, 04:44 PM

1. Do you get screwed up when the guitar players use capos? - personally, I loathe capos. I think guitarists should have enough of a command of their instrument that they don't have to use capos to cheat. Also, once you start capo'ing up past about the 2nd or 3rd fret, a lot of acoustic guitars start sounding more like ukeleles or mandolins. That all being said, the only impacts a capo really should have on you as the bassist is: a) make sure you are fluent in all keys (since capos make it a lot easier for a guitarist to play in G#, Bb or other non guitar friendly keys), and b) make sure the charts you get are showing the "actual" key vs. the capo key. A lot of charts I've seen have two sets of notation, one for the capo'd guitar and the other set for the keyboard... if you ever get charts like that, make sure you are playing the keyboard (real) chords or else things get ugly in a hurry.

2. On the faster songs, do you find time to play things other than root, or R 5 8 things? - sometimes, sometimes not. Again, echoing other posters here, it's not about playing X number of notes it's about what makes the song feel good. Most praise and worship songs can really only support about two "busy" instruments max and so if the acoustic guitar and the drums are already pretty active, for example, that really doesn't leave room for a lot of bass trickery. I've been known to bring a bass part all the way down to quarter notes on the root if that's what it takes to lock-in a song, feelwise. The natural inclination a lot of times is to try to "force" the groove by playing more notes when in fact, the only way a groove will every really come into line is when everyone is willing to play less.

3. Do you play a 5 string? I'm debating of getting one. - Totally your call. IMO (and apologies for the stereotypes) a 5-string is not necessary for most "white" (guitar driven) stuff, but probably advisable if you are doing a lot of the R&B/"black gospel"/soul material in flatted keys and/or where those walk-ups from the super low register are really appropriate. I use a standard 4-string with E string dropped to D and have found that has pretty much been all I've needed for the last 10 or whatever years I've been doing this now.

Best of luck, and more important than anything else, always keep your heart in the right place.

Jim Carr · #17 03-16-2009, 05:07 PM

This is so not PW exclusive.

But since you asked only those with such gigs to help, heck, I'll comply by not helping, OK?

GODSBASSMAN · #18 03-18-2009, 04:06 PM

No. The guitar players are usually trying follow what I am doing.
The faster songs are faster cause everyone is trying to keep up with me.
I play a sixer, always.

davec · #19 03-18-2009, 04:48 PM

1. only when the lead sheets are wrong, which they often are
2. sometimes if it fits *** why? are you wanting to ? or being asked not to?***
3. I've tried it, and it just wasn't MY voice, I usually keep at least one bass with a hipshot just incase the leader wants me to give them exactly whats on the recorded track

Ben B · #20 03-18-2009, 06:26 PM

I pretty much agree with what's already been written.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkybass

1. Do you get screwed up when the guitar players use capos? Our guitar players capo a lot of songs, and it really screws me up.

No. I don't watch the guitarist. A few times years ago, I didn't have music and had to watch the guitar chords when a capo was used. At the time, I could transpose pretty well and didn't miss too many notes. I didn't enjoy the challenge, and I hope I never have to do that again.

These days, I work with a choir director that's well prepared (although she might not think so). I get the song list and music a few days ahead of time and try to somewhat memorize the songs. I always have the sheet music or charts when playing. Almost always, the sheet music is in the correct key. If it isn't in the right key, I just write some hints on the page.

The bottom line is don't rely on the guitarist. Use your own sheet music or charts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkybass

2. On the faster songs, do you find time to play things other than root, or R 5 8 things? The chords seem to change fast on some songs.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on the song. On some songs that change chords each beat, yes, I just follow the root. In these cases, doing more would not improve the song.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkybass

3. Do you play a 5 string? I'm debating of getting one.

Yes, usually, but that's because I already had a 5 string. I didn't purchase it for worship music. If you haven't already done so, search for 5 string threads here on TB. There's a lot of good info. The same reasoning to use or not use a 5 string should apply to both secular and worship music.

Good luck,
Ben