Rank the most important scales for hard rock and metal bass

[gonzilla]

What would you say are the top 5 or 10 scales used by metal and hard rock bassists?

I'm specifically thinking classic rock (KISS, The Cult, etc), classic metal (Queensryche, Judas Priest, etc), and glam/hair metal (RATT, Guns n' Roses, etc).

Would it be major (phrygian), minor, pentatonic minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor?

[onlyclave]

1) Minor pentatonic

The end.

[ohskigod]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

1) Minor pentatonic

The end.

Laughed in the middle of my office on that one!!!!! LOL


i"ll add Myxolydian to the list, havent got a prayer finding another 8

[bongomania]

The idea that any one scale would be more important than another is bizarre.

[dvh]

I think by "important" he means most common, etc.

[Bassgrinder77]

I'd recommend this to any bass player.
1. ALWAYS use your ear.
2. Learn a LOT of songs and know their chord changes (not just the bass lines) and notice how the chords move and how the bass line relates to them.
3. Now learn even more songs, repeat.
4. You'll recognize patterns.
5. Know the blues scale and minor pentatonic (what the heck, major pentatonic too).
6. Learn the 7 modes of the major scale.
7. Learn basic diatonic theory (you can look that up on the internet).
8. Notice how some songs follow diatonic chord progressions and some don't (most rock and metal don't but some rock does).
9. Learn about chord substitutions.
10. DON'T practice scales - it could numb your ear and turn you into a robot.
11. It's not necessary to learn a lot of theory but it is necessary to have an ear for harmony (chords).
12. Learn cool riffs and listen for when (chords, changes, songs) they work and when they don't and if you're into the theory side, you be able to answer why that is.
13. No matter how much theory you learn, NEVER let it make you a prisoner. If something sounds good, it's good.
14. There are no rules but there are patterns (and they're good to know).

Originally Posted by gonzilla

What would you say are the top 5 or 10 scales used by metal and hard rock bassists?

I'm specifically thinking classic rock (KISS, The Cult, etc), classic metal (Queensryche, Judas Priest, etc), and glam/hair metal (RATT, Guns n' Roses, etc).

Would it be major (phrygian), minor, pentatonic minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor?

[Rudreax]

Originally Posted by Bassgrinder77

1. ALWAYS use your ear.
2. Learn a LOT of songs and know their chord changes (not just the bass lines) and notice how the chords move and how the bass line relates to them.
3. Now learn even more songs, repeat.
4. You'll recognize patterns.
5. Know the blues scale and minor pentatonic.
6. Learn the 7 modes of the major scale.
7. Learn basic diatonic theory (you can look that up on the internet).
8. Notice how some songs follow diatonic chord progressions and some don't.
9. Learn about chord substitutions.
10. DON'T practice scales - it could numb your ear and turn you into a robot.
11. It's not necessary to learn a lot of theory but it is necessary to have an ear for harmony (chords).
12. Learn cool riffs and listen for when (chords, changes, songs) they work and when they don't and if you're into the theory side, you be able to answer why that is.

You were going good until you got to #10. Practicing scales does not turn you a robot. It will never turn you into a robot. Ever. EVER. It just doesn't, and tbqh this one point is horrible advice (no offense intended, of course). The rest is pretty good, though.

What is it about theory that makes people think it will kill one's ability to create music?

[NKUSigEp]

The Cult is now classic rock? Might be time for me to hang it up at the ripe old age of 26.

And scales? As mentioned, chord progressions are much more important.

[Wespe]

If you're new to theory it's common to second guess yourself when coming up with new things because there's some misconception that theory dictates what's good and what's not.

Not sure really, I had a phase where theory was really holding me back, and I just kept through it and it ended up helping my playing significantly. Go figure. Different strokes.

[gonzilla]

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

The Cult is now classic rock? Might be time for me to hang it up at the ripe old age of 26.

And scales? As mentioned, chord progressions are much more important.

I'm 26 too. Being that the band's first album was in 1984, they've been at it for 25 years now.

[slybass3000]

For Riffs and Fills:
The minor pentatonic and the minor Blues scale for sure above anything else,

Sly

[Bassgrinder77]

YES.
It's good to learn theory but it's better to develop your ear. My advice is to trust your ear and fill in the gaps of your theory understanding to whatever degree you feel it helps you but never let your understanding of theory make you its prisoner. That will limit you and if you're aware, you will come across musicians who know way less than you do who are making better music because they're just going with what SOUNDS good.

Originally Posted by Wespe

If you're new to theory it's common to second guess yourself when coming up with new things because there's some misconception that theory dictates what's good and what's not.

[Bassgrinder77]

Here's my problem (or concern) with musicians getting into scales early on:
1. They tend to incorporate them into their playing verbatim, making their playing linear, playing close together scale intervals. Although there are no rules, larger interval jumps (and mixing it up) generally sounds better.
2. They tend to apply them in an un-rhythmic manner. It's amazing how musical only a couple of notes can be when applied with the right rhythmic phrasing. Listen to a great drummer (you can learn a LOT) - he doesn't have ANY scales but he makes amazing, exciting music.
3. They often miss-apply them harmonically.
4. Scales can become rote, un-thinking, un-listening muscle-memory patterns and (worse-yet) habits.
That's my robot / ear-killing concern.
Of course scales are basic building blocks of music and I think it can be good to learn and recognize them but (at least initially) they should be learned in the context of harmony, chord movement, song structure, etc.

Originally Posted by Rudreax

You were going good until you got to #10. Practicing scales does not turn you a robot. It will never turn you into a robot. Ever. EVER. It just doesn't, and tbqh this one point is horrible advice (no offense intended, of course). The rest is pretty good, though.

What is it about theory that makes people think it will kill one's ability to create music?

[Rudreax]

Originally Posted by Bassgrinder77

Here's my problem (or concern) with musicians getting into scales early on:
1. They tend to incorporate them into their playing verbatim, making their playing linear, playing close together scale intervals. Although there are no rules, larger interval jumps (and mixing it up) generally sounds better.
2. They tend to apply them in an un-rhythmic manner. It's amazing how musical only a couple of notes can be when applied with the right rhythmic phrasing. Listen to a great drummer (you can learn a LOT) - he doesn't have ANY scales but he makes amazing, exciting music.
3. They often miss-apply them harmonically.
4. Scales can become rote, un-thinking, un-listening muscle-memory patterns and (worse-yet) habits.
That's my robot / ear-killing concern.
Of course scales are basic building blocks of music and I think it can be good to learn and recognize them but (at least initially) they should be learned in the context of harmony, chord movement, song structure, etc.

In this case, I can see where you're coming from. Personally, I started playing and practicing scales and such the moment I got a bass and it has never hindered my playing, but that could just me. But, I know what you're talking about.

[mambo4]

Perhaps it should be thought of as
"Practice scales, but play music..."
any how +1 minor pent, +1 play to the chords

[lomo]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

1) Minor pentatonic

The end.

2 true, LOL.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Bassgrinder77

YES.
It's good to learn theory but it's better to develop your ear.

You don't have to choose. That's a fundamental and very common misconception.

You don't have to choose. Why do people act as if you do have to?

Do both.

Knowing theory will never, EVER, hurt you. Misunderstanding and misapplying it can, but that is true of just about any knowledge. It says NOTHING about theory itself.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Bassgrinder77

never let your understanding of theory make you its prisoner

Understanding of theory has never made a prisoner of anyone. If you (the generic "you," not you personally) are a prisoner, it's because you DON'T understand what theory is, not because you do. Its true purpose is more descriptive (how and why certain musical phenomena/events work they way they do) than prescriptive (what is the "right" way to make music). Anybody who thinks of theory primarily as prescriptive has misunderstood it, and it's that MISunderstanding that may lead to problems, not actual understanding.

[Ric5]

fish scales

[Rudreax]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Understanding of theory has never made a prisoner of anyone. If you (the generic "you," not you personally) are a prisoner, it's because you DON'T understand what theory is, not because you do. Its true purpose is more descriptive (how and why certain musical phenomena/events work they way they do) than prescriptive (what is the "right" way to make music). Anybody who thinks of theory primarily as prescriptive has misunderstood it, and its that MISunderstanding that may lead to problems, not actual understanding.

+a lot.