reading music issues

[dalconthenovice]

so i'm learning to read music, and its got to a point where notation wise i am able to identify what note a clef is naturally like i do letters, but one major issueis bothering me... rhythm, reading the rhythms, any ideas on how to identify that?

oh and one smaller thing, i noticed this when reading the music sheets for the bassline to "whats goin on" by marvin gaye and theres a measure that is in Bb and the notation simply states a B no Flat, now everyone is telling me that its a b flat when you play it, well why the hell didn't they put the flat symbol down??? what am i supposed to do about music sheets that don't list the chords on the top of the measures? guess and hope for the best?

[MalcolmAmos]

If the key signature had one flat sign, that notified you the music will be using the F scale. Well the F scale has one flat - the Bb - so you are expected to remember when ever you see a B in this music play Bb.

Reason for all that - there is not room in the clef for every sharp or flat. F# has 6 sharps, if they added all those sharps in the clef that is all you could see. Adding them makes it harder to read the music, so you are supposed to remember that F has the Bb -- so when you run across a B in that music it's to be played as a Bb.

As to the duration of each note. Each note is shown in a specific way - that way tells you how long to hold the note. That and then there is a whole specific bunch of rest marks that you have to learn.

You can cheat -- sing the song under your breath and move to the new note with the lyrics. Normally one lyric word for each note. Now I did not tell you that, it's our secrete.

No chords on the sheet music. Yep, bummer. You have to read the bass clef standard notation. Or assume a I IV V progression. Or recognize what chord is needed - by ear - good luck with that. Or revert to the tonic pentatonic and develop your groove from that. Or watch the rhythm guitar hands and change chords when he does. Or learn how to harmonize a melody line and write the chords in the margins. Or keep looking for some music that does have the chords shown.

Good luck.

[251]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

so i'm learning to read music, and its got to a point where notation wise i am able to identify what note a clef is naturally like i do letters, but one major issueis bothering me... rhythm, reading the rhythms, any ideas on how to identify that?

Think of it as a vocabulary lesson or a crossword puzzle. Memorize them cold. Collect them from charts, transcribe them. I finding writing things makes memorizing easier.

oh and one smaller thing, i noticed this when reading the music sheets for the bassline to "whats goin on" by marvin gaye and theres a measure that is in Bb and the notation simply states a B no Flat, now everyone is telling me that its a b flat when you play it, well why the hell didn't they put the flat symbol down??? what am i supposed to do about music sheets that don't list the chords on the top of the measures? guess and hope for the best?

Sometimes charts are wrong. If you need to play a flat, write it in. OTH, the flat is in the Key Signature, on the music staff, so you don't have to write every ocurance. If you want the chords above the music staff, write them in. This isn't rocket surgery for a pop tune like "What's Goin' On". 8-)

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

so i'm learning to read music, and its got to a point where notation wise i am able to identify what note a clef is naturally like i do letters, but one major issueis bothering me... rhythm, reading the rhythms, any ideas on how to identify that?

oh and one smaller thing, i noticed this when reading the music sheets for the bassline to "whats goin on" by marvin gaye and theres a measure that is in Bb and the notation simply states a B no Flat, now everyone is telling me that its a b flat when you play it, well why the hell didn't they put the flat symbol down??? what am i supposed to do about music sheets that don't list the chords on the top of the measures? guess and hope for the best?

write the notes out on a single line and count out the rhythm without worrying about pitch....after a while you will see patterns and those rhythms will become automatic.....early on most of what you read will be divisible by four so count out eights as one and two and three etc.....sixteenths as one e an ah two e an ah.....

if there is a flat in the key signature all those notes are flat,unless indicated by a natural sign(incidental)......the next bar returns the note to what's indicated in the key sig.....

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

so i'm learning to read music, and its got to a point where notation wise i am able to identify what note a clef is naturally like i do letters, but one major issueis bothering me... rhythm, reading the rhythms, any ideas on how to identify that?

oh and one smaller thing, i noticed this when reading the music sheets for the bassline to "whats goin on" by marvin gaye and theres a measure that is in Bb and the notation simply states a B no Flat, now everyone is telling me that its a b flat when you play it, well why the hell didn't they put the flat symbol down??? what am i supposed to do about music sheets that don't list the chords on the top of the measures? guess and hope for the best?

Guitarist Jim Hershman says

This is a small tip that has helped me learn difficult passages with very little time to work on them. It consists of separating the intervalic and rhythmic elements and dealing with them one at a time. For instance if a particular rhythm is difficult, play the passage slowly using one pitch or just tapping out the rhythm. Conversely, if the intervals are the problem, treat them all as quarter notes until you get comfortable playing the notes. This has saved me a lot of time in the past.

Another tip for improving sight reading is to read duets with a friend. Duets for flute, violin, clarinet are available at any good music store. Get a bunch of them and go for it. You'll both improve.



I always enjoyed the Charles Colin RHYTHM STUDIES books...

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Guitarist Jim Hershman says

This is a small tip that has helped me learn difficult passages with very little time to work on them. It consists of separating the intervalic and rhythmic elements and dealing with them one at a time. For instance if a particular rhythm is difficult, play the passage slowly using one pitch or just tapping out the rhythm. Conversely, if the intervals are the problem, treat them all as quarter notes until you get comfortable playing the notes. This has saved me a lot of time in the past.

Another tip for improving sight reading is to read duets with a friend. Duets for flute, violin, clarinet are available at any good music store. Get a bunch of them and go for it. You'll both improve.



I always enjoyed the Charles Colin RHYTHM STUDIES books...

not to hijack,but do you have any suggestions for learning more complex figures.....

[Ed Fuqua]

Well, that's' one thing I enjoyed about the Colin books, they build towards complexity. You get a rhythm, you read through exercises in different keys that utilize that rhythm. Then you get another rhythm with more exercises. Then you get exercises that combine both rhythms. Then you build on that then you build on that etc etc etc. So you're getting (by the end) some pretty syncopated lines and you've been working on the visual representation having an actual aural meaning - you see it, you hear how it's supposed to sound.

But what do you mean by "complex figures"?

[Zooberwerx]

To the OP: keep chippin' away at it. You're already 3 steps beyond half the guys I gig with.

BTW, I'm a big fan of the Mel Bay primers for student musicians.

Riis

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Well, that's' one thing I enjoyed about the Colin books, they build towards complexity. You get a rhythm, you read through exercises in different keys that utilize that rhythm. Then you get another rhythm with more exercises. Then you get exercises that combine both rhythms. Then you build on that then you build on that etc etc etc. So you're getting (by the end) some pretty syncopated lines and you've been working on the visual representation having an actual aural meaning - you see it, you hear how it's supposed to sound.

But what do you mean by "complex figures"?

triplets within another triplet,figures tied to parts of other figures that are not readily counted out by subdividing the notes....stuff that a jazz guy or session guy might see on a chart ....crimson,zappa.....most rock stuff i run into may have one small passage that is difficult and i can usually listen to the record....while that gets me through that particular passage,i have not really learned how.....

[Ed Fuqua]

Well again, see above. But it's still all about the "P" word.

[JimmyM]

reading complex figures simply takes practice. you got a lot of good suggestions from eddie baby. just don't put any pressure on yourself to learn advanced stuff before you're ready for it. it all takes time and won't happen overnight.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

reading complex figures simply takes practice. you got a lot of good suggestions from eddie baby. just don't put any pressure on yourself to learn advanced stuff before you're ready for it. it all takes time and won't happen overnight.

i think i'm pretty close....it just seems that this hurdle is higher than the other ones....

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

i think i'm pretty close....it just seems that this hurdle is higher than the other ones....

yeah, well if it was easy it wouldn't be as fun to finally nail it

[vinny]

Clapping these rhythms helped me immensely.

http://www.gswsftp01.com/bassbooks/f...For%20Bass.pdf

Say them out loud if you need to.

[christianharger]

Originally Posted by vinny

Clapping these rhythms helped me immensely.

http://www.gswsftp01.com/bassbooks/f...For%20Bass.pdf

Say them out loud if you need to.

Wow, that's really fun and definitely helpful.

[dalconthenovice]

is there any books on the subject

[jweiss]

Didn't see this mentioned yet, but for rhythm reading it is very good and often recommended. More thorough and structured than the Engel pdf ref'd above:

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Reading.../dp/0769233775

[Arpeggiator]

just persevere with it, reading triplets etc... come with time, if you can pick triplets out by ear. try following a piece with the notation in front of you.