Reality?

[thumblypeg]

I'll need the straight dope.

What are the chances of a 33 year old Satellite Installer with "some" music education who hasn't played bass in years, making a living in music?

Yeah, I've searched. I didn't find exactly what I was looking for. I know now that I'm not nearly as good as I thought. I also know that there is no music scene here to speak of(Dry County).

Neptoon clued me into some good teaching contacts in Memphis. I'm curious as to how much progress I would make driving an hour and a half per week for a half hour lesson. Is it in their best interest to teach me efficiently? This is part of their income after all. How do they know that I won't outgrow my need for them once I learn what I need to learn? I'm no beginner but I do need help with sight reading, chord charts, slapping, tapping, etc..

Hobbyist isn't good enough for me(I know alot of the hobbyists here could probably shred me into the ground, but they also probably have really good careers. It's all or nothing for me)

I flaked on a music sholarship out of high school and have regretted it ever since. I want to make my living playing music, in one form or the other. Plain and simple.

This isn't some stupid dream, right? It's not like I'm trying to "make it" and be a rock star or anything. Just a decent wage doing something that I have some talent for and enjoy.

Encouraging words or reality checks are welcome. The former is preferable, but I respect the advice of the members here.

Oh, keep in mind that I do not plan on staying here. The female will be graduating college in a few months, then we're getting the hell out!

[Flabby1]

Where there's a will there's a way.

Good Luck to you!!!

[mward69]

I am 38...I walked away from bass for yrs, my wife got tired of my playing the "air bass" so she bought one. It's weird, but after walking away and the getting back into it was a blessing. After getting my fingers back into "shape" and getting my chops up, I was learning new stuff and really getting into theory.
That said....I play every weekend in a cover band, make $100 per night, and no it's not earning a living, but just as fun.

I'd say 1st....PLAY and learn theory..it's should come to you without any problems since you have that under your belt...just wipe off the cobwebs
2nd...Contacts......meet other musicians in your area. NOT just garage players, hit the clubs and what not.
3rd..look at being either a set {touring } musician, or studio musician {which has their own "click} so that will be frustrating.
If your into worship....from what I hear down here in GA, the black gospel scene is HOT and they don't play the typical worship music, it's more like R&B/funk....fun as a bass player.
4th....learn the business side of it. Get an agent and learn the "lingo" of the business. Also on that note....know EVERYTHING about your bass AND gear.
And finally......get used to doors getting slammed in your face, people not calling you back, and getting "bumped" at the last minute..

I have seen many post on here about playing pro here....I think searching under the band performance and mng. threads will produce more info for ya.....
Good luck

[thumblypeg]

Yeah, the post started out in my head as one that would belong in the General Instruction area, but ended up a bit different. I'll try over there.

As far as learning music theory, it's not that I have to learn it so much as "re-learn it" and improve upon it. I was a french horn player in HS, so I that's pretty much where my education stopped in that area.

I can set up my own bass and swap out pickups, I'm certainly no luthier but that's an entirely different education there. I'm happy with leaving most of the technical stuff to the technical guys. I won't be doing any 'woodwork' to my axe any time soon. heh.

Cover bands. I'd love to be in one, but as I said, Dry County. Most bands that come here to the private clubs are from out of state or a completely different part of the state. Practice would be a hassle. But as I said before, this location is temporary. I'm seriuosly considering the lessons from actual music instructors. They could probably catch any 'wrongs' in my style and technique pretty quick and help me to hone them. I'm just curious as to how serious they would take me. They must have a pretty high turnover rate, as everybody want's to play bass! That's the easy one! Then they take a couple of lessons and get bored.

I'm a long hair sleeved out with tats, so I'm sure most people wouldn' take me seriously right off the bat. I guess I'll have to prove them wrong.

Thanks for the replies. I wish this site were around when I was really playing, who knows where I'd be now.

[alembicguy]

Originally Posted by Flabby1

Where there's a will there's a way.

Good Luck to you!!!

Where there's a will there's RELATIVES!!

[DocBop]

Your chances are as good as anyone who puts the work in. To make a career out of playing takes a lot of work, a lot of contact making, and a wide skill set. The industry has changed dramatically over the last decade or in the digital work, the shake up of the music business model, so you have to decide what type of musician you plan to be then see what types and how much work is there. How much work in your area or do you plan to move. It's like any career change you need to do a lot of research.

Also being a good high school or college player is a different world that a pro musician. To make a steady income these days you need a wide variety of skills. Need to be flexible as the business and trends change. The guys I know making a living in the 30's and 40's are great sightreaders, good ears, know many styles, can pickup a show real fast, gear to cover most situations, many double on URB, teach on the side, good knowledge of business side of music. Some these day because keyboard bass is used so much play keyboard bass for sessions and double on it live. Bottom line the more skills you have the more ways to make money you have.

It is a lot of work, to start late you need a good teacher, you need to put about four hours a day into practicing, you have a lot of catching up to do. A lot of music is practicing to make things second nature, building up the ears, developing a good sense of time, listening to lots of music of all styles, so when someone say give me something like <fill in the blank> you know what they are talking about. Its a lot of work and have to find a balance of getting out and making contacts for future work. That is a hard one. Spend all your time practicing you're great, but no one knows you exist. So too much time hanging out and making contacts your skills aren't good enough when the phone does ring.

So I'd say you have a thinking and research to do.

[Warfrat73]

I've seen a lot of people try to make a living playing music, and I've seen very few succeed without also teaching. Both of my parents were professional musicians who ended up teaching. To make a living at it you've basically gotta do one of two things: get in a band and get touring and get a record out, and work like hell and get lucky or be a session player which means you've got to live in an area where folks are actively recording and have the the chops and KNOW the theory (not just think you do) and get lucky and make connections. I've got a solid music background, played some professional tuba in orchestras and chamber groups, I'm a decent guitar player, know a reasonable amount about music theory, can read bass clef fluently (though can't play it fluently on the bass) and have been playing the bass off and on for a few years (fairly seriously for the past 5-6 months). I think I'm years of hard work away from anybody wanting to pay me a decent wage for playing the bass, a few bar gigs here and there sure, local band, sure... but those things aren't a living.

[lavmonga]

Fine I'll say it. Chances are slim to none; chances of making it are slim enough if you start as a twenty year old. Starting to learn bass and trying to make it at 38 seems damn near masochistic. Don't let it discourage you though, if you want it that bad the experience of trying alone might be worth it. Sorry, but I'm sure there are alot of people in agreement with me.

[gre107]

Many of us have had to take "time off" from our music and have done quite well coming back to it. I took ten + years off and jumped right back in and haven't looked back since.

Do what you love to do, life is short and there is no second chance!

[thumblypeg]

Originally Posted by lavmonga

Fine I'll say it. Chances are slim to none; chances of making it are slim enough if you start as a twenty year old. Starting to learn bass and trying to make it at 38 seems damn near masochistic. Don't let it discourage you though, if you want it that bad the experience of trying alone might be worth it. Sorry, but I'm sure there are alot of people in agreement with me.

Well, I'm 33, not 38. And I'm not 'learning' how to play bass. I only want to be better than the average uneducated musician so I can compete. And I haven't entertained ideas of 'making it' as far as a record deal since I was 20. I have heard of house bands in Vegas whos members bring in close to 100k a year. I think it may be more of a 'right place, right time', sort of thing. It's not like I'm all of the sudden wanting to get into medical school.

Some people have a natural talent for this sort thing and I don't want to sound conceited, but I'm one of those people. Music always came naturally to me. Immaturity and lack of follow through pretty much ruined it for me in my early years.

I also don't believe that I need to be a 'master' of music theory to succeed anyway. I'm not aspiring to be a conductor or composer of symphonies. Just in the past 2 or three weeks I've already gotten much better at slapping. For instance, I can play Brick House note for note along with the recording. This isn't the most difficult of songs, no. And playing it with a recording is a far cry from playing it live with a band. But the point is, 3 weeks ago I could barely slap at all. I have weak points that I wish to improve on. I know I have a long way to go, and I'll never be the best, but it is just bass. I know that I will never be a concert musician. And as I've said before, I'd be happy playing with a high profile cover band for weddings or cruise ships or what have you. Right now, I'm basically just a contract laborer, I make maybe 30k a year if I'm lucky. I have no kids, I have a woman who is about to start a career and has no preconceived notions about where that might be. We can go anywhere and do anything we want. I'm going to try a music career because I think I can do it. I literally have nothing to lose.

I didn't have tools like instructional videos or the internet when I was learning before, either. Hell, back then I didn't even have a steady job, so I could not afford lessons from actual bass teachers. I appreciate your candor, it is, after all, what I asked for. But I have the feeling you haven't read all of my posts.

Everything I knew before has come back to me. My fingers don't get sore, I can actually play better than when I was 20.
I have been practicing for a minimum of 4-5 hours a day since I got back into it, and it is starting to show. But, like the guy said, being good isn't all there is to it. You have to make connections and get in the door. That might be a few months or a year from now. Who knows, I'm very determined when I set my mind to something.

I'm going for it. You may as well get used to my rambling posts, because they will be many. This place is brilliant. It's my first stop whenever I log on now.

oh yeah, I learned Brick House from this video. Alot of the older players will find this simple as hell, but man I thought it was pretty cool. I think it's a good intro to learning slap bass. Heh, Youtube is my teacher right now. What a world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj4dvCFz440

[Warfrat73]

Your "it's just bass" comment might not go over too well. To be honest I think it's far more important to know theory as a bass player than it is for other instruments in pop/rock groups (this isn't nearly as true for jazz players). It's easier for guitar players to just play chord shapes or solo with scale shapes. As a bass player you pretty much need to know where you are in the progression and where you want to play in relation to the tonic, maybe not in a garage band, but to be a pro. Keep in mind also that most "concert musicians" are playing off of scores (at least initially) as a bass player you'll be asked to improvise (another theory argument). As far as the wedding thing goes if you can get yourself into a decent 4-5 piece party band you can probably expect to make $300-500 a gig (on the high side). My dad did it for 20+ years 20-25 weddings a year plus bar gigs, that was in addition to his full time teaching job. My mother was a world class classical trumpet player (she was a professor at Eastman School of Music in the 80's) but gave it up to teach elementary school music because it was too hard keeping her chops up and competing for gigs (though I'm sure my sister and I had something to do with that too). In my early 20s (I'm now 32) I was playing tuba in a minor professional orchestra and doing 15-20 quintet gigs a year for peanuts. Though there's clearly less money in classical music than pop/rock/jazz, that's reality.

That having been said, it sounds like you had already made up your mind and were looking for some validation, so there's really only one thing to do, bust your butt and put your heart into it.

[thumblypeg]

By, "it's just bass", i meant, compared to brain surgery or something that really DOES require years of training and proper education.

I was not aware that a classical musician couldn't make a decent living. That doesn't seem right.

So, you're dad would make 6 grand a year on weddings if he was lucky. Probably 100 or so per weekend at bars....

Yeah, even without kids that would be really difficult to get by on.


Damn. So, nobody on this forum has a full time music gig that pays the bills? Everybody has a day job?

My bad. I was thinking that there could be a future in it for anybody who is willing to work for it.

Thanks for that post, Warfrat73. I guess I have time to think about it. I was hoping I could at least get by as well as I am now.

Whatever, I'm gonna keep practicing and see what happens.

[Tslicebass]

Yeah man
get to a big city...and just start playing. Go to sessions. Meet all the cats who get gigs. You just gotta be a whore about it at first. Then when things pick up you can pick and choose. Just work hard and be flexible and it will happen. I don't think the age thing is a big deal unless you are trying to land a pop gig. Just study up, shed and make some connections.
Location is the most important thing IMO though. Cant make money where there are few gigs to be had.... especially for local guys.
Good luck

[OtterOnBass]

If someone's doing it, you can be doing it.

My uncle restores classic cars. He's out in his pole barn every night working on cars. He loves it. We go to the junkyard together and have a blast. One time we saw a mechanic in the junkyard - not a happy-looking guy. My uncle told me, 'I'm so glad this is my hobby and not my job'. Once it's a matter of dollars and cents, the fun he gone, he explained. That doesn't mean he's not able to rake in a bundle when he sells his mint-condition muscle cars, it means that's not why he does it, and his food and shelter aren't riding on finding that rare, authentic gas cap.

I think you're on the right track, find the people who are doing it and see what it takes, what it's like and if it's what you are really looking for.

[thumblypeg]

Originally Posted by OtterOnBass

If someone's doing it, you can be doing it.

My uncle restores classic cars. He's out in his pole barn every night working on cars. He loves it. We go to the junkyard together and have a blast. One time we saw a mechanic in the junkyard - not a happy-looking guy. My uncle told me, 'I'm so glad this is my hobby and not my job'. Once it's a matter of dollars and cents, the fun he gone, he explained. That doesn't mean he's not able to rake in a bundle when he sells his mint-condition muscle cars, it means that's not why he does it, and his food and shelter aren't riding on finding that rare, authentic gas cap.

I think you're on the right track, find the people who are doing it and see what it takes, what it's like and if it's what you are really looking for.

Oh yeah, don't think I haven't wondered about that myself. When it turns into a job, will it still be fun. Doubtful. But at least if it does get down to that, I may be able to find solace in the fact that I'm not having to work outdoors in the hot sun or cold rain anymore.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by thumblypeg

By, "it's just bass", i meant, compared to brain surgery or something that really DOES require years of training and proper education.

You're talking becoming a working pro musician, not just some player. It takes about ten years to become a musician. True you will be playing in the that time, but to acquiring all the skills, ears, and make them second nature your talking about ten years.

Then playing for a living is a 40 hour a week job just like any other, about 20 hours a week of gigging and 20 hours of practice. As you mature what you practice turns more into warmup then working on arranging, composition, or improvisation.

Also music today with computers, DAW's and internet it a very different world. You aren't just competing against your local musicians for work. There are session players doing sessions over then net some big names too. Touring artists are now pulling musicians from all over the country. So you better get your marketing skills together to find work as a pro.

I don't think you have a very good idea of what it takes to make a living playing music.

[thumblypeg]

Originally Posted by DocBop

You're talking becoming a working pro musician, not just some player. It takes about ten years to become a musician. True you will be playing in the that time, but to acquiring all the skills, ears, and make them second nature your talking about ten years.

Then playing for a living is a 40 hour a week job just like any other, about 20 hours a week of gigging and 20 hours of practice. As you mature what you practice turns more into warmup then working on arranging, composition, or improvisation.

Also music today with computers, DAW's and internet it a very different world. You aren't just competing against your local musicians for work. There are session players doing sessions over then net some big names too. Touring artists are now pulling musicians from all over the country. So you better get your marketing skills together to find work as a pro.

I don't think you have a very good idea of what it takes to make a living playing music.

That's why I'm here amigo.

I knew that 'it's only bass' comment should have been edited.

It seems that some of you view me as incapable of learning.
Either that or you've been doing this for years and are offended that a common laborer thinks he can just 'jump right in' and make a living at it. For the record I don't think that. But I DO think it is entirely doable.

Surely you can see that there are musicians of all skill levels out there right now, doing this. If every one of you could play like Wooten, he wouldn't be making so much money.

I'm not good at translating my thoughts and ideas into text. DocBop is shooting me straight. It's not gonna stop me, but he's shooting me straight. thanks.


Believe me, I am thinking about the business and technology aspect of it. One thing at a time, my chops are not even up to par yet. I've got quite a ways to go. But this is like any other career move. The only way to do it, is to do it.

[tZer]

The only sure thing is that if you don't try you won't make it.

But as far as "making a living" goes - that id directly connected to what it is you require to live. If you are living in a tent, debt-free, and have learned how to survive on leaves and berries, than the likelihood that you can "make a living" playing music is pretty strong.

However, if you require thousands of dollars/month to "live" you may find it a little more challenging.

And like with any career shift - especially one that involves becoming your own boss - you need a transitional buffer to support you as the transition takes place. This usually means that you could sever your current income source and survive for sustained period of time on your reserves while you get your new gig established and stable.

Good luck!

[thumblypeg]

Just one more thing on this.

I have the utmost respect for all of you who have worked hard to become accomplished musicians and I'm not trying to cheapen that by assuming that I can be where you are in a year. I just really want to do this and I do think I have a leg up on all of you in that I can get the advice right here that alot of you probably didn't have starting out. I might be able to avoid pitfalls and wrong turns just by heeding a seasoned vet's advice, whereas that guy/girl probably had to learn them the hard way. It may be too late for me to get into this, and I may very well end up just being another working stiff playing in a bar band on weekends. In all honesty that scenario is more likely. But it's not etched in stone.

I have read one post that pretty much told me I was wasting my time, and others that are skeptical of my ability to do it. And there are quite a few people here who I have actually hoped would share their input that haven't even bothered, possibly because they see posters like me come and go on a regular basis, and just can't take me seriously.( or maybe because it's probably the wrong thread)

As soon as I am able, I will start posting sound clips, working on my myspace page, etc. Then you'll have something more to base your opinions on. It's only been about 4 months or so since I decided to get back into this and I don't exactly have an unlimited cash flow. (Seriously, I don't know how you guys own several basses and rigs. You Must be making some serious dough somehow.)

[62bass]

I did it. I suppose you can too. One difference is I started when I was young, full of energy and had nothing to distract me, like having to support anyone other than myself and I didn't give a damn about creature comforts. It was tough at first and I had humbling moments when I played with some real pros and discovered I wasn't as good as I thought. So, I had to get better. These days I don't have the desire to work that hard anymore and I don't have to.

If you're willing to put in the work and really become better than your competition, you can do it. Then there's the marketing of yourself to consider and the whole business end of things but you can learn that too.

Don't pay any attention to what you read about in the bass magazines or on the internet. Find out for yourself what's true. Get out and play now while you're still working a day job and see how good you can get.

Good luck.