Really Stupid Question

[mattblissett]

And its not entirely related to bass, more a composition/songwriting question:

If you write for two guitars in a hard rock settings, how do you structure the two parts, is it in counterpoint, so both playing, for example, Gm but with one guitar playing legato notes whilst the other part plays the chord? I have been writing riffs on the piano because we were a trio but we're working with a second guitarist, and I would like some help on writing good solid parts, not necessarily soloing but strong definite statements that reflect the groove and the distinction between the guitars.

Thanks in advance
Matt

[Berserk539]

I think you answered your own question.

Sometimes in hard rock, you'll hear the guitars playing the same rhythmic line, but maybe a 3rd apart.

[Michael Case]

Listen to a lot of two guitar bands and see what you like. I think Fugazi is a great example of two guitar rock.

[mattblissett]

thank you, I really enjoy writing and I feel that it makes me a more useful musician, as opposed to having the one role of bassist.

[scottoc]

Listen to some Hot Water Music - very influential hard rock/melodic hardcore band.

[Jim Nazium]

That's not a stupid question, that's a very good question. How do you arrange for two electric guitars? It's very easy to create a mass of mud.

I know jack about arranging, so I won't suggest any specifc techniques, but check out some early Eagles tunes, like "One of These Nights" or anything on the "Desperado" album. There are usually at least two guitars, sometimes three, and they never seem to be stepping on each other.

[Gasman]

It's crucial that the two guitars not play the same thing on top of each other. IMO, a two guitar band requires, let's say, some maturity on the part on both guitarists. They can't play the same thing, and they can't each play all the time. One will need to play accented parts (not necessarily lead), which by definition means they will have to remain silent sometimes. It's difficult to get a lot of guitar players to stay on, say, a whole rest, but a smart one will realize that his/her part will sound much bigger the less they play. This is what arrangement are all about.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by mattblissett

And its not entirely related to bass, more a composition/songwriting question:

If you write for two guitars in a hard rock settings, how do you structure the two parts, is it in counterpoint, so both playing, for example, Gm but with one guitar playing legato notes whilst the other part plays the chord?

What's that have to do with counterpoint?

[mambo4]

AC/DC is a prime example of a split Rhythm/Lead guitar arrangement, a fairly traditional approach.

The Strokes do some interesting 2 guitar things. I believe they usually 'split up' the chord note between the 2. So each one is playing only a few notes of the chord, and not the same notes.

another approach is to think of one guitar as the FX laden harmonic texture and the other as the singular melodic voice.

it's a good idea to try to separate the harmonic range, EQ, and sonic character of the 2 guitars as well:
gtr1 plays high on the neck, gtr 2 plays lower
One uses the neck pickup, the other the bridge
one uses humbuckers the either single coil
one uses flatwound strings, the other round
one clean and one distorted
one dry the other wet with verb/flange...etc etc.
you get the idea.

simplicity and sparseness are the keys to building good complementary lines.
Try to create parts that leave empty space for the other to fill.
(actually every instrument should strive for that)

It can be hard to get them to abandon "my tone" in favor of something that serves the whole band mix better. Hence the earlier comments about maturity.

All that said, In hard rock there is always a place for everybody going all out. Just be sure to put something the opposite for contrast. I'm reminded of an anecdote from an audio engineering lecture I once attended:
Someone once asked the sound engineer for the first Star Wars film:
Q: How do make an explosion sound really, really huge?
A: be sure it is preced by absolute silence.

[Stumbo]

How about asking the second guitarist for his/her opinion of what they are used to playing and how it worked in other bands they were in?

[Grayson C.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CohG31ecYfA

Best example of two guitars. I use this band for ideas all the time - take a listen it's beautiful.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

How about asking the second guitarist for his/her opinion of what they are used to playing and how it worked in other bands they were in?

Stumbo, you shame me.

+1

[tZer]

mambo4 offers good points and you should certainly consult the other guitar player, if there is one.

Remember that there are no rules and your ears, or the ears of other people who share your taste should be the final judge.

You can take a traditional rhythm lead approach - or go with the dual lead (think Iron Maiden/Lynyrd Skynyrd) approach if you wanted to follow a template.

You could also think of the instruments in your band more the way you would an orchestra and compose in that fashion leveraging counterpoint, legato under staccato, question and answer, etc...

Also remember that just because they're guitars does not automatically mean they have to play guitar-like parts. They can make all sorts of other really cool sounds too that don't necessarily fit in the realm of harmony/melody. Rhythmic scratches, squeals, swells, etc...

As a simple starting point, make sure you have a solid motive/melody for one instrument first. Then accentuate it with a second part. Try simple chords to bolster the tension/release factor - try counterpoint - try...

In my experience, if you have a strong motive, the rest almost writes itself.

But I think the most important thing is to have a very strong central melody to work against/with.