Recording with bands that play a 1/2 step down

brianh · #1 01-31-2008, 08:08 AM

Ok, I hate this but a lot of bands like to play a 1/2 step down. It kind of messes with my ears and pitch when I tune down and it never really feels right. I'm doing a session like this tonight and I'm not sure what to do. Are there any sound/tone advantages to tuning down with them? I could just play my 5 string which would be a lot easier...

Any session guys with some similar experience?

JKT · #2 01-31-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianh

Ok, I hate this but a lot of bands like to play a 1/2 step down. It kind of messes with my ears and pitch when I tune down and it never really feels right. I'm doing a session like this tonight and I'm not sure what to do. Are there any sound/tone advantages to tuning down with them? I could just play my 5 string which would be a lot easier...

Any session guys with some similar experience?

I too, hate detuning and I refuse to do it. I assume the reference to using your 5 string has to do with the particular key(s) of the songs you're recording? I have recorded with detuned guitars and merely transposed. Another solution would be to have a particular bass set up to be tuned down and as such would be a little more comfortable for you.

JKT

Rickett Customs · #3 01-31-2008, 08:35 AM

Any time I've ever encountered this, is because the vocalist had an easier time singing a 1/2 step below as opposed to Standard" tuning" (440).
It also increases the longevity of a vocalists endurance live, especially if there are enough songs to do a whole night and is less prone to "lose their voice", or have their voice breaking up by the last "set list" or session.

optikhog · #4 01-31-2008, 08:44 AM

It also depends on the 'tone' of the music - tuning down supposedly makes a rock song sound more 'heavy'. We're actually struggling with this in a new band I've joined - some of the tunes being brought in from previous projects are 1/2 step down and simply don't have the same sort of impact when played in standard tuning. I have one of my basses tuned DGCE for such tunes.

lomo · #5 01-31-2008, 08:58 AM

Our singer/rhythm guitarist insists on this and I oblige. I keep one 35" fiver detuned with fat rounds on it to maximize string tension (135 B).

karamusic · #6 01-31-2008, 09:02 AM

Fire the singer

For bass players it is doable... but I play keyboards too
If i had to play all songs 1/2 note lower, I would simply kill him

k

meev992 · #7 01-31-2008, 09:09 AM

I have a bass for every tuning, so it's really all a matter of me choosing the right bass(es) to bring with me.

Rickett Customs · #8 01-31-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karamusic

Fire the singer

For bass players it is doable... but I play keyboards too
If i had to play all songs 1/2 note lower, I would simply kill him

k

Sometimes you don't have that choice though.(depending on location). But also, I'd take "the nice guy", that needs the de-tune, rather than an "A-hole" that could do it in standard tuning, if that was a choice, besides some of the "good" singers suffer from LSD.(Lead singer disease or severe "asshattedness"

)
Also optikhog also brought up a good point too, It may not be because of the vocals at all.

hunta · #9 01-31-2008, 09:47 AM

Tuning down does produce a different sound than using a 5 string. Lower string tension will make things sound a little fatter/darker. It's just like how a song played in G will have a different tonal character than the same song played in G#.

PaulMacCnj · #10 01-31-2008, 10:04 AM

Prior to a gig, the guitarist/singer informed me that he tunes down a 1/2 step. He was completely honest and said that it helped his singing. No problem. We get to the gig, I tune down a 1/2 step. We're warming up a bit between the guitar, bass and drums. Then the drummer whips out a harmonica (to be used for some Blues numbers) and that shot the lower tuning to hell. Okay, hurry up and tune up the guitar and bass to standard tuning and play the gig. At the end of the night, the guitarist/singer grabs his neck and says, "Damn, my throat hurts from singing higher."

PaulMacCnj · #11 01-31-2008, 10:09 AM

By the way, check out Led Zeppelin's "Black Dog" live from December 2007 (YouTube). The band is playing the song in a much lower key that the original, assumingly to help out Plant with the vocals. However, it does add a really cool heaviness. Just listen to JPJ's bass. Damn, that gives me chills!!!!!

optikhog · #12 01-31-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunta

Tuning down does produce a different sound than using a 5 string. Lower string tension will make things sound a little fatter/darker. It's just like how a song played in G will have a different tonal character than the same song played in G#.

Yah, I've learned this the hard way. I'm using the same bass for some church band stuff we needed to lower for the singers. For a while I was just getting mud so I switched to a heavy guage set of Ken Smiths from my usual medium gauge set and found my tone again.

mutedeity · #13 01-31-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianh

Ok, I hate this but a lot of bands like to play a 1/2 step down. It kind of messes with my ears and pitch when I tune down and it never really feels right. I'm doing a session like this tonight and I'm not sure what to do. Are there any sound/tone advantages to tuning down with them? I could just play my 5 string which would be a lot easier...

Any session guys with some similar experience?

I think if you are playing on a "session" the thing to do is what the people paying you want. Take your 5 string by all means but be prepared to do what it takes to make the client happy. Your personal convictions about sound and string tension and whatever don't really matter when someone is paying you for your time.

Also consider that if they are going to be showing you something on guitars that are tuned down as opposed to giving you a chart, then the easiest thing is probably to follow them in the same tuning rather than try to reinterpret things a half step down on a 5 string. By the way you should probably have conisdered taking a second bass as a backup anyway.

As for tension issues and so on, if you are worried about that kind of thing there are two things to consider. Firstly, if the client and or producer is happy with the sound don't worry about it. Secondly if you are that worried about it go and buy some heavier gauge strings for the session.

98dvl · #14 01-31-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karamusic

Fire the singer

For bass players it is doable... but I play keyboards too
If i had to play all songs 1/2 note lower, I would simply kill him

k

Don't most keyboards have a transpose button/function that allows you to just de-tune everything a half step? My cheapie $100 Casio does this, figured they all did.

5andFretless · #15 01-31-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunta

Tuning down does produce a different sound than using a 5 string. Lower string tension will make things sound a little fatter/darker. It's just like how a song played in G will have a different tonal character than the same song played in G#.

I agree. We play Black Velvet in the original key (Eb). I started out using a 5, but eventually went to a detuned 4. The original song was done that way and the 5 just did not sound right.

OTOH, if all you are doing to detuning to help the singer, I simply use a 5 (if it comes to that).

AlphaMale · #16 01-31-2008, 05:42 PM

If it doesn't sound right when you downtune, maybe its your intonation

lowphatbass · #17 01-31-2008, 11:04 PM

A big reason for a lot of Blues and Rock bands tuning down originally was to allow the guitarist to use fatter strings and still bend the heck out of them. I starting tuning my bass down years ago playing Gospel because that's what the best players were doing, perhaps because the vast majority of songs were in Eb, Db, Bb, etc., but in the long run I realized that it just sounds funkier, regardless of what key the song is in.
If you are going to tune your bass down then be sure to intonate and set the bass up with that in mind.

abassman84 · #18 01-31-2008, 11:17 PM

I believe in doing whatever is best for a song. If that means tuning your bass down 1/2 step than thats what I will do. I don't mind at all, the only thing I hate is that I play a '66 Jazz and the tuning machines are super stiff so I have to sacrifice the 1/2 step down songs with a MIM Jazz with EMG's instead. Crappy!

Johnny StingRay · #19 02-01-2008, 01:10 PM

Many times my Christian group will change keys on the fly due to what is physically going on with the singers.........weather, colds, how they feel, how their voices are working that day, etc............I don't detune or anything like that. I just shift my finger positions, don't look at my fingerboard and pretend to play in the written key when I'm actually playing 1/2 or 1 or even more than 1 step out of the key. Transposing on the fly, I love it! It has improved my musicianship, also.
Peace, Johnny