Rhythmic Languages

[Earthday]

I've been trying basic Konnokol lately, which is an Indian language of rhythm. For example, a quarter note is Da, two eigth notes is DaKi, a triplet is DaKiTa, four eigths is DaKiTiMi or DaKiJuNa depending on the accent etc.

The implications I've gathered are that you can easily sing and create rhythms with your mouth, and basically have them notated in your mind automatically (assuming you are comfortable with the language). John McLaughlin is famous for using it, and says he uses it in just about everything he creates.

I think its an interesting idea, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it might help my bass playing. My question is have any of you tried anything like this, do you still use it, and how has it helped your musicianship?

[mambo4]

YMMV, for me the big leap in understanding rhythm came from learning standard notation (still a work in progress.) It's the precision of it that I find helpful.


I don't know much about Konnokol, but it seems like it might be less precise than notation. how does Konnokol indicate rests of various lengths, and syncopated (off beat only) notes?

[kesslari]

Arab music uses a similar system of phonetic sung rhythms, and it's remarkably helpful.
In both systems, each syllable is a drum tone (so it's similar to solfiege for Western music). Thus singing the rhythm also tells you how to play it. Konnokol is far more sophisticated (there are many more tones on Tabla or Midrangem than on the Arab doumbek drum.

Mambo - it's very precise, because it's a song. It's primarily an oral tradition (there may be notation, but I'm not familiar with it). Think of it as an extremely sophisticated form of vocal beatboxing - if you were to sing a beatbox rhythm, a good drummer should be able to play it accurately, right?

Similarly, if I write "Da ged-di nak-ka di ged-di nak-ka ga di ged-di nak-ka (da)" you probably wouldn't know how to play it, but if I sang it, you would, and you would be playing 10/8 rhythm called Suhl Tal.

Konnokol is also very useful in learning to subdivide in groups of other-than 3 or 4.
If you want to play 16th notes you can say "1-e-and-a" and if you want triplets you can say "1 and a". This is very useful to communicate - I can tell my drummer that I want the kick on the "a of 2 and the e of 3". But what if you want quintuplets? Or to subdivide the quarter note into 7? In Konnokol that's "ta-ka-ta-ki-ta" and "ta-ka-di-mi-ta-ki-ta" respectively. Now, granted, you could make something up (or research it) - maybe "1 e and a um" but then, to teach it to someone else, you'd have to explain your system. And you'd have to be consistent in your system as it expands. So this is a system that is already in place in that culture, and therefore facilitates learning and communication, much as music notation does for us.

Learning different rhythmic systems can only help your playing. There are concepts in Indian rhythm that are incredibly complex, but are very learnable within the context of that music and system. Most of us have been speaking for much longer than we have been playing our instruments, so we have greater facility (can do complex things more easily) saying or singing them than playing them. So this facilitates learning much more complex rhythms and concepts vocally, then using that understanding of them to learn them on your instruments.

BTW, there may be a written tradition for Indian rhythmic and musical notation, but I haven't studied it and so I cannot comment - my understanding of that tradition comes through the oral tradition.

Hi

My bandmate got into Konnokol quite recently. He said he finds it more natural than more traditional methods because it's verbal and is fun like a game. He got quite good at it and it definitely improved his sense of rhythm and timing. Also he was able to apply it to convert polyrhythms we were using in the band from the western approach which he found confusing into Konnokol which he found quite natural to use.

However, one thing I've noticed about Konnokol is that it's not so good for long rests - it seems to be like a continuous stream of syllables. Apparently at advanced levels it can get into rests but I'm not sure if I've heard it. The significance of this is that bass lines typically have long rests. As such I think Konnokol is great for melody instruments, or instruments that have to improvise fast but don't have the effect on the rhythmic gravity that the bass does. If you start playing like that on bass and leave no space then it's not typical of the function of the instrument. Although, I haven't actually learned it in depth myself so I am fairly ignorant - this is just a superficial observation.

Personally, for this reason, I've found bell patterns and claves from Africa to be very helpful. They have a rhythmic density that is similar to most bass lines, with lots of space. Also, if you combine the bell patterns with use of other limbs or voice (basically, two or three way coordination), then you have a recipe for vastly improving your bodily sense of time and internal groove.

Probably taiko drumming (from Japan) would be interesting to look at too - I don't know much about it. I'm sure there are numerous advantages to learning Konokol, especially in respect of polyrhythms and feeling/perceiving different meters at the same time.

[rosanne]

afromoose: Where did you find the "bell patterns and claves from Africa"?

Originally Posted by rosanne

afromoose: Where did you find the "bell patterns and claves from Africa"?

I got them from this one guy called Jerry Leake - he's an ethnomusicologist based in Boston (I think it's Boston)... He's written many books and the ones I have are all excellent - I have Clave, African Bell Ritual, and Relating Sound and Time.

Clave is a short book about Claves, which is very good.

African Bell Ritual centres around the Agbekor (standard bell pattern) and explores cross rhythms being played against it using the body and voice, and also different 'modes' of the bell pattern. Interesting fact (which I discovered one day whilst playing drums, but is probably quite well known to ethnomusicologists) is that the standard African bell pattern has the same interval relationship as the major scale - WWHWWWH. The book has exercises that rotate this pattern (basically like modes) against the other cross rhythms. Then it has other rhythms in more unusual time signatures like 5/4, 7/4, 9/4 and 24/8.

Relating Sound and Time is an awesome book which looks at both Indian and African rhythmic concepts in quite an in-depth way. It's quite easy to understand but goes very deep and is the result of about 25 years of research according to Jerry. Talking about Konokol - there is probably similar stuff in there, since in tabla I think you first start by learning the syllables and then apply this to the drum.

His publishing company is called Rhombus Publishing and I would recommend his books very highly. Studying African Bell Ritual affected my bass playing and writing more than anything I've done in the last 5 years, including learning to play jazz.

Actually here's a link

http://www.rhombuspublishing.com/percussion_books.html

[N.F.A.]

Get the McLaughlin video on konnokol too. Here it is at amazon. It's great!
http://www.amazon.com/John-McLaughli...6728492&sr=1-1

[kesslari]

Moose - excellent references. Looks like they're next on my list.
I'd add Matthew Montfort's "Ancient Traditions, Future Possibilities" which explores the rhythmic traditions of West Africa (similar analysis of bell patterns, BTW, and exercises to develop facility with polyrhythms), Bali and India. Incredible book, I'm slowly working my way through it.
http://www.ancient-future.com/atfp.html

[rosanne]

Thank you Moose! I"ll be getting into this. Also thank you kesslari as I'll be checking that out too.

No worries! Happy to share! I will also check out that link to the Ancient Traditions Future Possibilities thing!

Looks good!

[kesslari]

Pulling this thread up because I've been doing some exercises from Montfort's book, and they're mindblowing. Also been working with the McLaughlin konokol DVD.

However, one thing I've noticed about Konnokol is that it's not so good for long rests - it seems to be like a continuous stream of syllables.

What I've learned is that there is an accompanying system (systems actually - I now know 3 of them) of keeping time with the hands while you sing the subdivisions. Rather than just clapping (it's easy to lose track of "1" when you are clapping while complex subdividing and phrasing-across-beats-and-measures is happening), there are a variety of ways of tracking each beat in the cycle. The simplest, for me, is to use your knuckles (inside of the finger joint) to count. 4 fingers, 3 joints plus the tip, = 16. Use your thumb to count, starting from pinky-joint-at-hand, going to tip (4) and continuing. all 4 fingers is a 16 beat cycle (or 4 bars of 4). Playing in 7? Stop at joint 7 (3rd joint of ring finger) and start at the top. It's easy once you get into it.

There are other methods as well, more complex to describe.
All of them, though, allow you to put rests into your konokol while keeping track of the beats.

An exercise I'm doing now is 8 beats, subdivided in three (e.g., triplets).
I can just write the first 4 beats, though, because it repeats.
(forgive the dashes - trying to make this fit)

1--------2-------3------4
TA ki ta TA ki ta TA ki ta TA ki ta

Now take the same 4 beats, subdivided in 3, but count in 4.

1---------2--------3-------4
Ta ka di mi Ta ka di mi TA ka di mi

Now take the same 4 beats, subdivided in 3 but count in 5. Since it's important (in Indian music) to end on "1", you need 3 1/8th note (triplet) rests. I need to go to 8 on this one for it to fit.

1---2-------3-------4--------5--------6--------7--------8
r r r r TA ka Ta ki ta TA ka Ta ki ta TA ka Ta ki ta TA ka Ta ki ta

Continue the patterns, phrasing in 7 and 9 (but still keeping the original triplet subdivision). I've only gotten to 5, and my synapses are cooked.

[PlanetEarth]

I've dabbled with Tabla and of course the Tala's - always find it to be incredibly cerebral.

-PE