Rhythmic phrasing

[fahrendorff]

Hi.

I think I'm pretty weak in my rhythmic phrasing. My time is good (or so I have been told by my teacher), but I can't come up with rhythms that fit the song, and when I thinking too much about it while playing I suck even more.

I have a pretty good understanding of what notes fit the chords, just not how to use them rhythmically.

When I solo I also tend to repeat myself rhythmically A LOT.

How do I go about improving my rhythmic phrasing? I can sing a bassline to a song that fits, and has some cool things in it, but when I play it's just not happening.


Thank you very much.

[So Low Bass]

All instrumental music imitates the human voice. Phrase as you'd breathe singing it.

[fahrendorff]

Yeah I had an idea that it had to come more from within and on a more subconscious level?

But I have do I "externalize" what I would sing out to my bass?

[So Low Bass]

You don't have to sing out... think of how you WOULD sing it. Read a paraghaph of some thing outloud. Note where you take breaths. That's phrasing. Now, add the inflections, set the words to notes, and you have music.

[Bootzilla]

Maybe listen to some motown lines for ideas. Have you tried using ghost notes?

[Jazz Ad]

Originally Posted by Bootzilla

Have you tried using ghost notes?

And silence. Silence is music too.
Too often solos sound like the guy is afraid to leave any space in his lines.

[fahrendorff]

Yes, I have the Shadows of Motown book. And it's definately giving me some ideas.

I use ghost notes too.

I just have a hard time incorporating it in my playing, the things I'm learning from Jamerson and also the ghostnotes in a natural way. It's very forced when I'm using these ideas.

Thank you very much for your replies!

[PlanetEarth]

You could take some advise from Bootsy, "it's all about the 1 and 3"

Not really thought about it much methodically but I guess I'd break down as - keep the 1/4 pulse going strong in your head, start on the beats be it all 4, 1&4, 2&4, etc. small turn and accents on the half phrase, little bigger on the whole phrase - run with that, keep it real simple until that pulse is in your gut/head then stretch out from there with the 16th's, etc. and bigger/longer turns on the 1/2 and whole phrases....

Just a thought.

FWIW, I had a past teacher and great player describe time like this:

Time is; "...two different things. There is one called absolute time which is the space between two points. It's like the space between two stars in the universe. In space we measure distance by how long it takes to get from one point to another. This time is absolute, 60 seconds in a minute right? Time feel is an interpretation of the space between these two stars, or between points A and B. If you look at points A and B as 7am and 7pm then the space between them is filled with the events of that day. These events can be of infinite quantity. What happens between two quarter notes is the same thing. How you fill that space creates your own personal feel, and is variable, but those two points are absolute".

-PE

[mambo4]

Coming up with rhythms that "fit the song" means you have to gain farmiliarity with the style of the song, which means learning a lot of basslines from recordings of that style...jamerson is definately a good place to start. Look for other generes where bass rhythm is a prrominant feature, like reggae, latin, shuffle blues etc.

Learn notation if you haven't already. The boost to rhythmic awareness is invaluable.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

And silence. Silence is music too.
Too often solos sound like the guy is afraid to leave any space in his lines.

Guilty as charged. I have to start training myself to not sound every note.

[Lo-E]

Try this:

Get a drum book; something like Starer's Rhythm Method.

Now take a line you already know how to play, but play it over each rhythm in the book.
It's a lot harder than it sounds, and you can get all kinds of interesting ideas from it.

I keep a couple of books of snare drum excercises around for just this purpose. I don't do it every day, but every couple of months I'll spend a few days messing around with ideas from it.

Another thing you can do with lines you already know is practice them while moving where the 1 is. It's a really hard excercise. And really good. I should do it more often!