right hand speed problem

[psyanoid]

Hi guys,
I am new to the talkbass forum and have found this site incredibly useful.
I have a very frustrating problem that I am hoping you guys can help me with.
I have been playing bass for around 4 years and am pretty good at it while playing with a pick. I mostly play metal and can manage most slayer, iron maiden, metallica and megadeth songs well when i play with a pick. So, about 6 months ago I decided that it would be a good idea to start practising with my fingers also in order to add flexibility to my playing. The problem is that even after 6 months of practising my right hand fingers are very slow. though i can easily play songs like holy wars, battery and take no prisoners with a pick i can barely manage paranoid with my fingers. i cant even play seek and destory once it speeds up (the guitar solo part). this is getting really frustrating to me. it seems i cant improve my right hand speed at all. can you guys suggest what i can do to improve it?
and please dont tell me to stick with the pick and forget about the fingers cause though i love playing with a pick and still gig using picks i want to be able to play with fingers too. also, if it matters, i can do two handed tapping pretty easily.
thanks in advance and please dont mind my bad english.

[brentonkim]

Metronome, scales, spider technique, practice.

[jgroh]

I played for 20+ years using only a pick. My first teacher had me use one and thats how I learned. A couple of years ago I wanted to start using my fingers for some stuff and unfortunately, to answer your question, its just going to take time and keep practicing. I couldnt play as well or as fast for a while using just my fingers and I almost got discouraged and went back to the pick, but now Im so glad I didnt. I would say that you should drop the pick, at least temporarily, and force yourself to use your fingers for everything (outside of a paying gig that is). That was the only way I got mine up to speed. Now I can play anything just as fast and even better using my fingers (still use the pick for some stuff though mostly for a different sound)

[J-B'ass]

The quickest way to improve your fingerstyle is to put away the pick and focus only on your fingers.

Speed is not a goal, it is a by-product of accuracy. You don't practice speed, you practice accuracy, and speed follows as a natural result. Practice a song slowly, so slowly and out of time that you can play every note in the right order perfectly. As you get comfortable you will be able to start playing in time, and then through a wider range of tempos.
This is always how I approach a song that is too fast or just a bit awkward to play; I play it slow and out of time just to get the accuracy down.
Don't go near the metronome until you have achieved the desired speed; pushing yourself to keep up with a click is a waste of time, and takes the focus away from accurate and clean playing.

[theunknowndude]

Originally Posted by J-B'ass

The quickest way to improve your fingerstyle is to put away the pick and focus only on your fingers.

Speed is not a goal, it is a by-product of accuracy. You don't practice speed, you practice accuracy, and speed follows as a natural result. Practice a song slowly, so slowly and out of time that you can play every note in the right order perfectly. As you get comfortable you will be able to start playing in time, and then through a wider range of tempos.
This is always how I approach a song that is too fast or just a bit awkward to play; I play it slow and out of time just to get the accuracy down.
Don't go near the metronome until you have achieved the desired speed; pushing yourself to keep up with a click is a waste of time, and takes the focus away from accurate and clean playing.

+1
I tend to actually lose accuracy trying to play fast with a pick,... I started out trying the hardway, after playing the bass for a short time I wanted to play cliff burton's solo lol

suffice to say that ive only been playing for 2 years now, 18 months pretty much fingers only,... I can keep pretty fast single note picking but still have a long way to go playing runs fast a nd accurately, this was as I decided to focus on just right hand speed on a single string and nothing else,... now my focus is on moving across strings/notes accurately and quickly, very different feel... only time will improve but what used to be near impossible for me is now mostly within my grasp.

oh yeah and relax and play softer, trying to dig in and tigthen up everything to play faster will only slow you down and make your fingers tired,... I found sean malone a good example of nice fast playing,... see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHvk7J7V2i8

he's just warming up, alot of his actual basslines are alot more focused and awe inspiring!

[fonnet]

Have you notice that even when one work his right hand, he still look at the left ? My point is that often we struggle with speed and keep on looking the wrong hand. Sometimes, the very difficult fingering is not on the fingerboard. Working on the accuracy of the right hand by muting with the left the string can make you realize that:
- you don't know what string to play with the right if you mute the strings with the left (while you can play with the left without playing with the right Why making the work of the right hand so hard!)
- you don't use the same fingering every time (while you do it for the left!)
These are accuracy matters as mentioned earlier and responding to the lack of knowledge of what should be going on for real on the right is one way to accuracy then speed.
Another way to explore is playing the lines beginning with your none leading finger. You could discover immediate progress for the price of a little discomfort on the first note played.
And playing with 3 fingers is useful too. Not for the sake of playing with 3 fingers but by playing with the ring, you accustom the middle to lead too, like the index. You are also able to play with another pair than I/M if one of these two is hurt. If you add the thumb, you can be more relaxed if you have a 4 hours gig regarding right hand fatigue and also be sure that in time you'll have an pretty decent fluency and therefore speed in the right hand.

[psyanoid]

Thanks guys! those replies helped a lot. i think the problem with me was that i was just expecting quick results (but you guys' post made be realise that its gonna take a lot of time)so i will just continue practising and slowly improving my speed.

[Big B.]

How hard are you plucking the strings? In a former life, when I first started playing,I was into only metal and played with a pick (dont tell the symphony guys). When I decided to start playing with my fingers I ran into the same problem. I found that I was hitting the strings pretty hard with the pick and when I tried to pluck that hard my fingers just couldnt respond fast enough and tired very quickly. Try backing off and playing with a lighter touch. This improves tone and allows for more fluid technique. And yes, practice makes perfect. Good luck.