Running out of Ideas when soloing????

[cire113]

After about 15-20 mins of continuos soloing.. I notice myself playing the same ideas over and over again...

Is this normal??

Also how do i increase my vocabulary for soloing... it feels like i play the same stuff..i want a never ending pool of creativity...

Does this just come from listening alot?

Ive only been playing 3 1/2 years.....

Any thought on this?

[Papa Dangerous]

15-20 minutes of soloing in a single song? I do not think thats what you mean.. that would be a hell of a solo lol I assume you are meaning you are practicing and after 20 minutes you find yourself repeating your previous ideas?

[Jazz Ad]

When you have nothing to say, it is time to shut up.
Just the same, when you're out of ideas, it is time to stop the solo.

Are you able to talk for hours, continuously inventing new stories?
If not, why would you expect the same when playing music?

Creativity isn't a tap you can open or close at will.

[MalcolmAmos]

How about playing the tune for a verse and a chorus then give the lead back to someone else.

[pbass888]

Sounds simple but transcribe.
Say you playing a solo on a standard... copy miles, then say wayne shorter then say ron carter on the same tune (see youtube for unlimited versions) My best ideas are the amalgamation of others. Lift, steal and borrow from others. Also if you mean 15 minutes of continuous practice then you loose ideas.... Contact Todd Johnson on talkbass about practice routines and time frames.... really changed my playing and improvement speed of soloing.

[Phalex]

I myself am very comfortable with certain runs / modes. If I were to solo for 20 minutes, you'd likely hear the same phrases a few times.

[cire113]

Im talking about when i practice.... and I mean like yeah 15 mins when im practicing my soloing...

I'm specifically trying to be more creative with the pentatonic scale .. IE differet note choices and rhythms.. Some of my favorite solo artists just use this scale and the way they can stretch it is amazing. To me most melodic soloing is all pentatonics at its core..

I guess this is just something that you accumulate from playing and listening to lots of music over the years...

Im pretty content with my playing though i guess ill just keep listening and playing alot...

[MalcolmAmos]

Take a look at the major pentatonic R-2-3-5-6 and compare that with the major chord tones of say a Cmaj7 chord R-3-5-7. More than enough melody notes here for your solo.

Most dirt simple Pop, Rock or Country songs will be major chords. So your major pentatonic is a friend.
Now make some licks.... from those notes.

R-2-3-5 pause 5-7-8-3 pause R-R-8-5. By now the chord progression will probably be over another chord. That same lick started on the new root will work - or - you've got 7 more notes -- let the melody notes help you decide on what bass line notes to use. Take the head and embellish from that.

Make up some licks. How about :
R-3-5-7-9 pause 7-R-3-5 pause 7-5-3-R
If you do not like that one make up another. There are hundreds of combinations.

The pauses.... see what Scott has to say about pauses. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB9CbmLBs7Q

Combination of chord tones and pentatonic notes will write a bunch of melodic bass lines. Old saying; "Let the melody be your guide." Don't forget to look at the melody notes being used. Borrow some of those for your solo.

Have fun.

[Snarf]

TRANSCRIBE.









TRANSCRIBE.







TRANSCRIBE.


Don't be lazy about it, don't make up excuses for not doing it, don't convince yourself you can get good without it.

[devine]

Hey man,

All good suggestions here... transcribing, using the melody, application of good phrasing etc etc...

If your investigating the use of pentatonics you could try and start using superimpositions over certain chords (this is generally what's happening when guys use a lot of pentatonics... for example Gary Willis, Bob Berg, Jerry Bergonzi etc etc).

So for instance lets look at the first 8 bars of Blue Bossa...

Cm7|Cm7|Fm7|Fm7|Dm7b5|G7b9|Cm7|Cm7

Now obviously the first ports of call would be...
Cm7 = C minor pentatonic,
Fm7 = F minor pentatonic,
You've then got a minor II V which you could use multitude of substitutions over but for arguments sake lets just use the arpeggios for now.
Then back to the Cm7 = C minor pentatonic.

Ok, so once you've got that down it's time to start using the substitution pentatonics.

We're going to use a minor pentatonic built from the fifth of the chord. So we get...
Cm7 = G minor pentatonic
Fm7 = C minor pentatonic
II V = The arpeggios... for now
Back to Cm = G minor pentatonic.

By using these substitutions you'll end up targeting different notes than you usually would simply because your using a slightly different approach. And, you'll also be adding in the ninth to each minor chord... which is always a juicy color tone!

Another substitution you can use is a minor pentatonic built from the ninth of a minor chord... So on a Cm7 chord you would play D minor pentatonic. This adds the thirteenth into the mix! Bearing the thirteenth in mind, it would sound a little weird if you used a D minor pentatonic over the Cm7 in Blue Bossa because the Cm7 in that standard is built from the C natural minor which has a flat thirteenth in it.

When your practicing this it's important to try and weave in and out of the 'parent' pentatonic and the substitution pentatonic, that way you get a good balance of chord tones and extensions.

So... wow, lots to practice lol! If you want to start a little easier so your brain doesn't melt, get a C minor groove going on a sequencer/band in the box/backing track or whatever and try just going between the C minor, G minor and D minor arpeggios. Try to understand and remember which substitutions add which chord tone extensions.

As always, take it easy!

Scott.

Free Online Bass Lessons - Scott's Bass Lessons
SCOTT DEVINE-BASS PLAYER-COMPOSER-EDUCATOR

[nickbass79]

Switch up the music you are listening and practicing to. I try to listen to music on the opposite side on the genre scale when I get in a rut. So, if I'm listening to jazz and funk, I switch it up to Heavy metal or classical. Just something different. The music gives me new ideas, even if I don't particularly like it, but it inspires me to hear new riffs, scales, melodies...etc.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by devine

Hey man,

All good suggestions here... transcribing, using the melody, application of good phrasing etc etc...

If your investigating the use of pentatonics you could try and start using superimpositions over certain chords (this is generally what's happening when guys use a lot of pentatonics... for example Gary Willis, Bob Berg, Jerry Bergonzi etc etc).

So for instance lets look at the first 8 bars of Blue Bossa...

Cm7|Cm7|Fm7|Fm7|Dm7b5|G7b9|Cm7|Cm7

Now obviously the first ports of call would be...
Cm7 = C minor pentatonic,
Fm7 = F minor pentatonic,
You've then got a minor II V which you could use multitude of substitutions over but for arguments sake lets just use the arpeggios for now.
Then back to the Cm7 = C minor pentatonic.

Ok, so once you've got that down it's time to start using the substitution pentatonics.

We're going to use a minor pentatonic built from the fifth of the chord. So we get...
Cm7 = G minor pentatonic
Fm7 = C minor pentatonic
II V = The arpeggios... for now
Back to Cm = G minor pentatonic.

By using these substitutions you'll end up targeting different notes than you usually would simply because your using a slightly different approach. And, you'll also be adding in the ninth to each minor chord... which is always a juicy color tone!

Another substitution you can use is a minor pentatonic built from the ninth of a minor chord... So on a Cm7 chord you would play D minor pentatonic. This adds the thirteenth into the mix! Bearing the thirteenth in mind, it would sound a little weird if you used a D minor pentatonic over the Cm7 in Blue Bossa because the Cm7 in that standard is built from the C natural minor which has a flat thirteenth in it.

When your practicing this it's important to try and weave in and out of the 'parent' pentatonic and the substitution pentatonic, that way you get a good balance of chord tones and extensions.

So... wow, lots to practice lol! If you want to start a little easier so your brain doesn't melt, get a C minor groove going on a sequencer/band in the box/backing track or whatever and try just going between the C minor, G minor and D minor arpeggios. Try to understand and remember which substitutions add which chord tone extensions.

As always, take it easy!

Scott.

Free Online Bass Lessons - Scott's Bass Lessons
SCOTT DEVINE-BASS PLAYER-COMPOSER-EDUCATOR

+1
nicely said. I remember learning about using these types of chord a while back... the c/g to make the fifth the tonal center. But it was something I always understood on one day, and confused myself another.. Your explanation reminded me of have to work it again kudos

[cire113]

Originally Posted by devine

Hey man,

All good suggestions here... transcribing, using the melody, application of good phrasing etc etc...

If your investigating the use of pentatonics you could try and start using superimpositions over certain chords (this is generally what's happening when guys use a lot of pentatonics... for example Gary Willis, Bob Berg, Jerry Bergonzi etc etc).

So for instance lets look at the first 8 bars of Blue Bossa...

Cm7|Cm7|Fm7|Fm7|Dm7b5|G7b9|Cm7|Cm7

Now obviously the first ports of call would be...
Cm7 = C minor pentatonic,
Fm7 = F minor pentatonic,
You've then got a minor II V which you could use multitude of substitutions over but for arguments sake lets just use the arpeggios for now.
Then back to the Cm7 = C minor pentatonic.

Ok, so once you've got that down it's time to start using the substitution pentatonics.

We're going to use a minor pentatonic built from the fifth of the chord. So we get...
Cm7 = G minor pentatonic
Fm7 = C minor pentatonic
II V = The arpeggios... for now
Back to Cm = G minor pentatonic.

By using these substitutions you'll end up targeting different notes than you usually would simply because your using a slightly different approach. And, you'll also be adding in the ninth to each minor chord... which is always a juicy color tone!

Another substitution you can use is a minor pentatonic built from the ninth of a minor chord... So on a Cm7 chord you would play D minor pentatonic. This adds the thirteenth into the mix! Bearing the thirteenth in mind, it would sound a little weird if you used a D minor pentatonic over the Cm7 in Blue Bossa because the Cm7 in that standard is built from the C natural minor which has a flat thirteenth in it.

When your practicing this it's important to try and weave in and out of the 'parent' pentatonic and the substitution pentatonic, that way you get a good balance of chord tones and extensions.

So... wow, lots to practice lol! If you want to start a little easier so your brain doesn't melt, get a C minor groove going on a sequencer/band in the box/backing track or whatever and try just going between the C minor, G minor and D minor arpeggios. Try to understand and remember which substitutions add which chord tone extensions.

As always, take it easy!

Scott.

Free Online Bass Lessons - Scott's Bass Lessons
SCOTT DEVINE-BASS PLAYER-COMPOSER-EDUCATOR

Wow thanks!!!

I never thought of it like that!!... Usually on blue bossa when practicing ill play any notes except E, B, F#(though this does work!), A,.. usually 3 or 4 note combinations..Or just the c minor pentatonic... Ill use the above notes but usually only as passing tones

Im gonna definetly try breaking it down like you said thanks so much!!!

[devine]

Hey man,

Glad to be of some help! I got really into this stuff for a year or two when I was studying with Gary Willis. He's a BIG user of pentatonics. Some thing else that might interest you... you can always look at the minor pentatonic as a major pentatonic instead. For instance, C minor pentatonic becomes Eb major pentatonic, F minor pentatonic becomes Ab major pentatonic etc etc. It all depends on which you feel most comfortable with. If thinking of pentatonics I tend to think minor when on a minor chord and major when on a major chord. Willis always converts it to major. It's really a personnel thing, just do what feels best.

Easy man,

Scott.

Free Online Bass Lessons - Scott's Bass Lessons
SCOTT DEVINE-BASS PLAYER-COMPOSER-EDUCATOR