Salsa and latin music question

[Bass301]

I have been researching the TalkBass archives and listening to salsa and other styles of latin music.

A question :
When listening , I hear what seems like an out of tune piano on Soul Sauce performed by Carl Tjader and also Trombon Criollo performed by Cachao and Jimenez. The occasional severe dissonance is very noticeable.

Is this "out of tune" sound a feature of styles of latin music ?
What is causing this sound in these two songs ?

Also , what style of latin music are each of these two songs ?

[Jhengsman]

A Mambo and Jazz fusion, called Afro-Cuban back in the day and more likely to be called just Latin Jazz today.

[mambo4]

My old salsa band used to play Trombone Criollo.

The out of tune piano is most likely just deliberately chosen dissonant harmony on behalf of the piano player. "out of tune" instruments are not really part of the style.

Both tunes are Cuban music, usually called Salsa by us Gringos.

Trombone Criollo is a Subset of Cuban Son music called a "Descarga" literally "unload" , a jam session. As such, The bass line is not a strict traditional Son Tumbao, but an improvised variant (by the maestro himself).

The same can describe Soul Sauce, tho Latin Jazz may be more valid by virtue of Cal Tjader's presence.

But both are definitely Cuban in style.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by mambo4

The out of tune piano is most likely just deliberately chosen dissonant harmony on behalf of the piano player.

True, some of the Afrocuban-style dudes like Eddie Palmieri love dissonant harmonies. Eddie in particular, man the chords he plays can wreck your head trying to figure them out.

It's also the case that some instruments may be played slightly sharp in order to cut through the mix better. This trick dates back hundreds of years, to when a solo violinist in an orchestra would play slightly sharp in order to be heard. I've never actually heard of a piano being tuned that way, but it's common enough with horns and strings, that I can imagine a pianist getting the idea.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by mambo4

Both tunes are Cuban music, usually called Salsa by us Gringos.


But both are definitely Cuban in style.

Or Tropical if the biggest Latino community around is Mexican as opposed to islanders.

[mambo4]

Curious...does "salsa" then also imply mexican music? I always took it to include music from the carribean islands...with Mariachi, Tejano (sp?) etc being seperate...

[Jhengsman]

No salsa is not a Mexican style it is what they call the Salsas, mambos, cumbias...the Cuban Puerto Rican, etc styles. Tropical is used in the same way a gringo would say salsa. If record stores still existed the records would be in a Musica Tropical, not Salsa section.

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by Jhengsman

No salsa is not a Mexican style it is what they call the Salsas, mambos, cumbias...the Cuban Puerto Rican, etc styles. Tropical is used in the same way a gringo would say salsa. If record stores still existed the records would be in a Musica Tropical, not Salsa section.

In the ny tri state area, where there is a large population of Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, there are salsa sections as well as Mexican sections. The salsa will also be with merengue a lot of the time (there are also a lot of Dominicanos in the tri state area).

[Jhengsman]

I just iTunes they have the genre listed as "Salsa y Tropical". Don't want to miss any Latino national ethnic groups because of a slightly different usage of Spanish, dinero is dinero after all.

[Bass301]

I remember reading a thread in the archives saying "Cumbia is the dominant sound in Southern California".

Is this style the original form of Cumbia or the Mexican version ?

What songs and bands are examples of the Cumbia style performed in Southern California ?