Scales Necessary?

[MikeTB]

Is the only way, to become very good at bass to study scales? Is It just me or does that sound really boring?!? Any other tips or techniques?
Or do I have to study bass scales the rest of my life.

Thanks Michael

[jmattbassplaya]

Study chords and chord tones. IME, they are much more (immediately) applicable to bass than scales. That said, you shouldn't ignore scales either...

[lfmn16]

Becoming great at something takes work. If it was all fun and games, everyone would be great. If you are happy with the way you play, don't do anything differently. If you want to be better, your best chance at improving is to do the same things everyone else does to become better. If learning scales wasn't useful, nobody would bother.

Now I'm sure some contrarian will trot out some great bass player that never learned scales, but that is the exception, not the rule.

[Arayor]

The meat and potatoes of playing any instrument is being good at scales. Not only will it help you understand where all the notes lie on the fretboard, but it will also help your ability to play runs. Knowing where each scale tone is will greatly help your ability to play 8th or 16th note runs that revolve around a scale. That being said, they are VERY boring to start off with. I suggest changing up your picking/strumming pattern.

[GigJones]

It’s not just the studying of scales -- it’s the playing of scales (at increasingly faster tempos) where one can practice, and focus on, proper right and left hand technique as well as the generation of good tone.

[miltslackford]

I would say there are a couple of scales that are used so much in grooves that they're worth learning - like the minor pentatonic. And of course it is always good to know the major and minor scales for making little runs between notes.

Aside from that I've never found scales particularly useful on bass as I rarely find myself doing scalar runs.

Far more useful are arpeggios (chord tones), and a really really good sense of rhythm.

If you get a book called 'The Bass Bible' by Paul Westwood it's full of example grooves. If you can play those grooves and count the beat at the same time then I'd say your on your way to being a very good bass player.

Scales are one of those things that keeps coming up - as in 'are they important?' They are important, but they are far less important than other things which should be discussed more like arpeggios and rhythm. Most good grooves come from the chord tones and a great sense of rhythm.

If you can nail a bassline with a few notes but which follows some tricky sixteenth pattern like a James Brown bassline, whilst dancing the two step, then I think that's way more useful than scales.

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Study chords and chord tones. IME, they are much more (immediately) applicable to bass than scales. That said, you shouldn't ignore scales either...

Yes. Scales are important. Just don't play scales to play scales. Try to make them musical sounding whenever you play them. Also, play to a metronome or with a beat program whenever possible. If you can, put some swing on the beat, too.

Play all the scales, too. Not just major, minor and 7th. Pentatonic, chromatic, sharp 7 minors, etc. The more you play, the easier it gets.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Study chords and chord tones. IME, they are much more (immediately) applicable to bass than scales. That said, you shouldn't ignore scales either...

+1.


The reason why chord tones are so important is explained here.



http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bas...s-are-primary/

[mbeall]

Originally Posted by MikeTB

Is the only way, to become very good at bass to study scales? Is It just me or does that sound really boring?!? Any other tips or techniques?
Or do I have to study bass scales the rest of my life.

Thanks Michael

Studying scales will not make you a great musician anymore then studying the alphabet will make you a great poet or short fiction writer.

I'd like to help but I have a couple of questions for you, as I'm puzzled by your question on multiple levels. I'm just trying to get a better idea of where you're coming from before offering any advice.

1. How long have you had a bass?
2. Do you have a teacher?
3. If you do have a teacher what is the curriculum?
4. Why do you want to play bass and what are your goals with it?


Cheers,

Mike

[DBCrocky]

The object of studying scales is to familiarize yourself with how they sound and attaching that in your brain to what notes produce those sounds. The advantages are:


1. It becomes easier to work out bass parts by ear if you can recognize the sound of the scale it was written in.

2. You have a framework for writing your own bass parts that have certain sounds.

3. You expand your tool-set of improvisational sounds to draw from.

4. Doing drills with scales is good for developing your hand-coordination and for developing muscle memory that will allow you to play runs fluidly.


When you are first learning, you have to do drills to get your coordination going, and that can be boring. That's what marijuana is for .

But if you are really trying to get the most out of your practice and develop your skills, it shouldn't be boring. Scales are hard and conquering them should be seen as a challenge that will make you a better player and give you an edge over all the other lazy players who can't be bothered.

And you don't have to study bass scales for the rest of your life. Once you've learned them, and learned from them, you move on to other challenges.

[jefkritz]

learning scales is good.
learning arpeggios is better.
learning to play with good time and feel is even better than that.

but yes, you'll just have to keep playing and playing and playing to get better. hopefully it's fun though

[MikeTB]

Originally Posted by mbeall

1. How long have you had a bass?
2. Do you have a teacher?
3. If you do have a teacher what is the curriculum?
4. Why do you want to play bass and what are your goals with it?

I've been playing bass for little, over a year.
I do not have a teacher just the computer
I play bass for the fun, i really enjoy playing.
I like to learn lots of covers, so I have the memory, and hand coordination. my main problem, is learning songs without tabs
I thought scales might help that.

Thanks for all the answers, any help on learning songs without tabs

Michael

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by MikeTB

I've been playing bass for little, over a year.
I do not have a teacher just the computer
I play bass for the fun, i really enjoy playing.
I like to learn lots of covers, so I have the memory, and hand coordination. my main problem, is learning songs without tabs
I thought scales might help that.

Thanks for all the answers, any help on learning songs without tabs

Michael

The first thing you learn about scales is that you need stamina and co-ordination to play them. Then you need a good ear to listen to what you play. The first task is physical, so chord tones and such are of no consequence to a new player, they cannot play any notes with any co-ordination, let alone single out and work on chord tones. Scales are physical exercises first, then they become musical lessons that will develop chord tones and such as part of the whole picture.

Scales are simple constructs they fall under the finger in two and three note sequences per string and all finger need to be used of further skills are to be developed and understood.

Learning scales and chord tones are pointless if you do not have the imagination to use them...they do not make the player, the player makes them......into music.

[MalcolmAmos]

Way back, my instructor told me that when I played my scales he did not care if I hit a wrong note ---- IF ---- I corrected it before he had to call it to my attention.

If I just kept going and did not recognize that I had gone out of scale, that upset him. But if I recognized what I had done and corrected it progress was being made.

Every musical instrument I know of has you playing scales right at first, if for no other reason than to recognize the sound of the "good notes" from the sound of the "bad notes".........

....... And to get our fingers doing what is necessary to make those notes.

Yes you could start with pentatonic scales, arpeggios or chord tones. But, why not start with what everything starts with -- the major scale. If you want the major pentatonic scale leave out the 4th and 7th degree of the major scale.

Every thing starts with the major scale.

[miltslackford]

To the OP, I just want to say this -

The reason you're asking the question is because (from the sounds of it) you're at an early stage of playing and you want to know how to maximise your time and effort to make improvements.

This is totally valid and sensible - it makes sense to keep yourself motivated by practicing things that will give you results.

Many people will extol the virtues of this and that which you 'should' learn. A list made this way can be endless and confusing. One of the reasons to seek a teacher is that they will prioritise this information and pace you through it in a sensible way.

Watch out on forums because there are great players who want to show how much they know with an answer but don't have much experience teaching and seeing what works. So their answers can be comprehensive and knowledgeable but a lot of instruction is about reducing the amount of information for a student rather than increasing it.

If you focus on learning where the root notes are, learning the basic chord tones for major, minor and dominant chords, and focus on improving your rhythmic skills, you will make good progress.

If you are at the stage where you're questioning why to practice scales, then you are not at the point where you should be trying to tackle them. There will be other things which are more effective for you at the stage you're at so focus on them and when you're ready to start adding scales to your practice schedule it will be because you know why and you're ready for it.

[Jazzkuma]

Yes.

end of story

[mambo4]

"The practice of scales solves the greatest number of technical problems in the shortest amount of time." -Andres Segovia

[MikeTB]

Thanks all!!
Guess i know what I'll be doing

Michael

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by mambo4

"The practice of scales solves the greatest number of technical problems in the shortest amount of time." -Andres Segovia

Segovia also played classical, which is a completely different mindset from popular styles, which are much more chordal based. To get good at classical, scales are quite important. To get good at popular styles, with the possible exception of classical rock or metal, chords are the thing. Ya, you need to understand scales to know how chords are formed, but the chords really tell you all you need to know about which notes to play.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by mbeall

Studying scales will not make you a great musician anymore then studying the alphabet will make you a great poet or short fiction writer.

Yes.
To the OP - you "become good at bass" by working on being a musician, which means building a good foundation in the principles of music. To me there are three areas that need to be developed:
1. PHYSICAL APPROACH - or technique. This doesn't mean slapping or raking or any of that. It means developing a relaxed and tension free approach to the instrument, so that you can play anything that you or anyone else can conceive fo on the instrument.
2. UNDERSTANDING - or music theory. Understanding how chords function, how to approach polytonality, polyrhythms, etc.
3. HEARING - or ear training. Being able to hear with clarity and understand what you are hearing as you are hearing it, not after the fact.

Scale work is NOT some kind of vocabulary or improvisational exrecise. Nor is it ear training. Scale work is done to help define issues of physical approach that need addressing - fingering, position shifts, eveness of attack, familiarity with the fingerboard etc. If you're not playing the major, natural harmonic and melodic minors in two octaves, I woud start. Also, I'd recommend naming all the notes as you play them. As far as "study bass scales for the rest of my life", there are no "bass scales", just scales and once you've assimilated them, why would you need to continue to "study" them? Music is a deep well that nobody gets to the bottom of; the deeper you get, the more there is to swim. It's not about standing in the same puddle all the time. But if you want to grow, you need to build a firm foundation to start with.