School me on ska basslines!

[RyRob813]

I've been a big ska fan for a long time, but I never decided to study and learn ska until this summer.

I know the basic structure of ska; syncopated guitar upstrokes, and a walking bass line. All the different ska bassists I've listened to, however, seem to have different approaches to that basic structure.

It seems that most of them go beyond the usual jazz style quarter note walking, and play with the rhythm of the tune more- a lot of times it seems that the entire feel of the tune is the bassline, even more so than in other styles of music.

Any other tips to suggest?

Thanks!

[kcamsdog1387]

I never really had any formal experience in ska training, but they way I figured it out was just learning a bunch of ska songs, figuring out what the bassist are doing for the sake of the song, and why they are playing it. I think playing slightly behind the beat, short, subtle slides and little quick rests here and there add a lot of flair to the ska beat. If you can just listen to the music and do what i do: listen to the bass in your head, you'll be skanking in no time.

[RyRob813]

Originally Posted by kcamsdog1387

I never really had any formal experience in ska training, but they way I figured it out was just learning a bunch of ska songs, figuring out what the bassist are doing for the sake of the song, and why they are playing it. I think playing slightly behind the beat, short, subtle slides and little quick rests here and there add a lot of flair to the ska beat. If you can just listen to the music and do what i do: listen to the bass in your head, you'll be skanking in no time.

Yea that's about what I'm doing haha. I actually just figured out Matty Freeman's bassline on "Hooligans..." It's a KICKIN bassline, and when I figured it out...all triads, he plays a 7th on one of the chords, and chromatic passing tone once. So simple, yet so amazing.

Of course I'm bias, because IMHO Matt Freeman is the greatest bass player to ever live

[kcamsdog1387]

Your preaching to the choir on Matt Freeman. I started out learning stuff on ...And out come the Wolves. I love the little riff he does for detriot also. I'd take a listen to any of the Aggrolites cds really dub-like lines. It really helps to have a drummer thats into those little snare rolls to jam along with.

[knigel]

I played bass in a ska band for years, basically to open for the bands I loved at the time (Slackers, Toasters, Bim Skala Bim, Bosstones, Scofflaws, Pietasters). I highly recommend listening to Victor Rice (Scofflaws, NY Ska/Jazz Ensemble)--he is the master of the tasty ska bass line. Amazingly talented, great tone. Seriously great stuff on Ska in Hi Fi. I also loved Joe Gittleman of the Bosstones, especially first two albums.

It also depends on what style you like--west coast (Voodoo Glowskulls/Skankin Pickle/Less Than Jake), which always seemed to be more agressive than the East Coast (Skavoovie and the Epitones, Allstonians, etc). Of course, there are always exceptions (Hepcat on the west, Thumper, Spring Heeled Jack on the East). And the great bands from the rest of the country (MU330, Eastern Standard Time, Suicide Machines). And The Specials were brilliant (2nd wave) and the traditional styles (Desmond Dekker, The Skatalites). Lots of different stuff to check out!

Are you looking for playing/writing tips?

[RyRob813]

Originally Posted by knigel

I played bass in a ska band for years, basically to open for the bands I loved at the time (Slackers, Toasters, Bim Skala Bim, Bosstones, Scofflaws, Pietasters). I highly recommend listening to Victor Rice (Scofflaws, NY Ska/Jazz Ensemble)--he is the master of the tasty ska bass line. Amazingly talented, great tone. Seriously great stuff on Ska in Hi Fi. I also loved Joe Gittleman of the Bosstones, especially first two albums.

It also depends on what style you like--west coast (Voodoo Glowskulls/Skankin Pickle/Less Than Jake), which always seemed to be more agressive than the East Coast (Skavoovie and the Epitones, Allstonians, etc). Of course, there are always exceptions (Hepcat on the west, Thumper, Spring Heeled Jack on the East). And the great bands from the rest of the country (MU330, Eastern Standard Time, Suicide Machines). And The Specials were brilliant (2nd wave) and the traditional styles (Desmond Dekker, The Skatalites). Lots of different stuff to check out!

Are you looking for playing/writing tips?

Cool man, those are some amazing groups you mentioned. Basically here's my deal: Band's like Rancid that played a blend of punk rock and ska, (third generation ska bands really,) but ESPECIALLY Rancid are what made me fall in love with music and the bass. I go to music school right now to pursue becoming a professional and play all types of music, but I figure if I'm ever going to be in a spot to start an original group and make a real go at it, it's right now.

I'd love to play in a punk/ska group, and maybe even do some traditional jazz standards ramped up tempo wise, and some other stuff too. So that's why asking about ska...when I hear that syncopated guitar skankin' I want to put in the best bassline possible!

[JohnnyPustular]

I played second generation ska back in the 80s. For some reason, current (3rd gen) ska just doesn't do it for me. Check out the Two Tone bands from England for some rockin' bass lines- Specials, Bad Manners, Selector, English Beat.

Back in the day, skinheads were mostly into ska and they were the least racially bigoted of anyone in the punk rock scene. Favorite ska t-shirt-- a homemade Charlie Brown t-shirt (crooked line around the middle) with the saying "Charlie Brown was a skinhead" on the back.

Ska shows were always the funnest and funniest.

Oh-- and the basslines-- mostly triads w/6ths or flat 7ths, played very upbeat and out front. Lots of Motown influence in 2nd gen ska bass. Take any song and play triads over the changes (we used to do Midnight Hour, Can I Get a Witness, Can't Hurry Love, etc.).

[greenboy]

There was kind of a third-wave preview or second-wave revival (depending on how progressive you feel your local examples might have been) going on in some places back in the late eighties or very early nineities, like the Tiny Hat Ochestra in Seattle ferinstance.

I liked the English Beat maybe for me the best in the two-tone days, for widening the material and bringing a certain personality that just clicked with me, and the Bosstones' Gittleman gets me real good for the same reason in slightly more recent times. But a lot of the material already named is great stuff too!

Always pays to look at reggae as a kind of flip side of the same coin, and it's easy to hear the common history with the skank and the one-drops.

[RyRob813]

Originally Posted by JohnnyPustular

I played second generation ska back in the 80s. For some reason, current (3rd gen) ska just doesn't do it for me. Check out the Two Tone bands from England for some rockin' bass lines- Specials, Bad Manners, Selector, English Beat.

Back in the day, skinheads were mostly into ska and they were the least racially bigoted of anyone in the punk rock scene. Favorite ska t-shirt-- a homemade Charlie Brown t-shirt (crooked line around the middle) with the saying "Charlie Brown was a skinhead" on the back.

Ska shows were always the funnest and funniest.

Oh-- and the basslines-- mostly triads w/6ths or flat 7ths, played very upbeat and out front. Lots of Motown influence in 2nd gen ska bass. Take any song and play triads over the changes (we used to do Midnight Hour, Can I Get a Witness, Can't Hurry Love, etc.).

Yep, I know all about it. IMO, early punk rock, skinhead/rude boy culture, and all the music and sociology that went along with it is some of the most interesting stuff to learn about, at least for me.

I'm pretty into punk rock and ska, and have a shaved head, so when I get asked if I'm a skinhead I usually answer that, "no I'm a human, but I'm into skinhead culture," which is followed by the "are you a neo-nazi?" question 90 percent of the time. I have no idea how a strictly anti-rascist movement got turned into the american neo-nazi skinhead thing...weird man.

At any rate, thanks for all the tips on the basslines...it seems to me that most ska is pretty straight forward with the traid patterns and whatnot, but the groove and feel is really what makes it sound so awesome.

[knigel]

I still have a shaved head, only now it's because I've lost my hair. I have two haircut options--shaved and not shaved.

[JohnnyPustular]

Originally Posted by RyRob813

I have no idea how a strictly anti-rascist movement got turned into the american neo-nazi skinhead thing...weird man.

It starts around the same time as two tone/punk in England. The kids who were involved in the punk/ska scene were largely disaffected working class kids with no job prospects given the recession of the late 70s. Disaffected working class kids is the prime demographic for nazi recruitment-- you can tell them that all their problems are caused by handouts to immigrants and minorities.

There was a group called the National Front that recruited quite heavily among the punks in England-- so much so that some bands like the Clash started doing anti-racism concerts. When punk returned to the US, it took a harder, but still politically left, form we called hardcore. Early 80s hardcore shows were mixed affairs, especially in Detroit where I lived. The race thing was being played out between dying metalheads and dying disco freaks.

One of the hardcore spots in Detroit was an old converted bowling alley called Todd's Sway Bar. The bowling side was converted to a large, open area for shows and the bar side was a popular gay bar. Punks and gays got along fine at Todds, which was very unusual given that 1) it was the 80s and gays didn't exist; and 2) it was Detroit and gays weren't allowed. They still aren't allowed in Detroit.

There were two kinds of music back then- pop music and underground music. When you went to a punk show, there were probably ska bands and post-punk bands, and rockabilly and whatever. As the hardcore era continued, the music got progressively harder and the politics more diverse. Strangely, people became more parochial, especially the Minor Threat/staight edge cats. The scene started to fracture around the middle of the 1980s and everyone went their own way. The hardcore scene became a great recruiting ground for american nazis- angry, disaffected working class kids who were isolated with their angry, disaffected music. A scene broke out in New York that was much more violent, mean, and parochial than past scenes. This, plus the hardcore areas in the south, evolved into the nazi-hardcore scene.

BTW- the song "Nazi Punks F--- Off" was not about nazis, but was about the narrow expectations of hardcore fans, which limited what bands were allowed to do (no solos). There weren't any nazi punks when the song was written.

[UncleFluffy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyPustular

It starts around the same time as two tone/punk in England. The kids who were involved in the punk/ska scene were largely disaffected working class kids with no job prospects given the recession of the late 70s. Disaffected working class kids is the prime demographic for nazi recruitment-- you can tell them that all their problems are caused by handouts to immigrants and minorities.

There was a group called the National Front that recruited quite heavily among the punks in England-- so much so that some bands like the Clash started doing anti-racism concerts.

For a good insight into the British side of that change, rent This Is England. Watched it for the first time a few weeks back and it brought back a lot of memories from that era. Good movie.

[RyRob813]

Originally Posted by JohnnyPustular

It starts around the same time as two tone/punk in England. The kids who were involved in the punk/ska scene were largely disaffected working class kids with no job prospects given the recession of the late 70s. Disaffected working class kids is the prime demographic for nazi recruitment-- you can tell them that all their problems are caused by handouts to immigrants and minorities.

There was a group called the National Front that recruited quite heavily among the punks in England-- so much so that some bands like the Clash started doing anti-racism concerts. When punk returned to the US, it took a harder, but still politically left, form we called hardcore. Early 80s hardcore shows were mixed affairs, especially in Detroit where I lived. The race thing was being played out between dying metalheads and dying disco freaks.

One of the hardcore spots in Detroit was an old converted bowling alley called Todd's Sway Bar. The bowling side was converted to a large, open area for shows and the bar side was a popular gay bar. Punks and gays got along fine at Todds, which was very unusual given that 1) it was the 80s and gays didn't exist; and 2) it was Detroit and gays weren't allowed. They still aren't allowed in Detroit.

There were two kinds of music back then- pop music and underground music. When you went to a punk show, there were probably ska bands and post-punk bands, and rockabilly and whatever. As the hardcore era continued, the music got progressively harder and the politics more diverse. Strangely, people became more parochial, especially the Minor Threat/staight edge cats. The scene started to fracture around the middle of the 1980s and everyone went their own way. The hardcore scene became a great recruiting ground for american nazis- angry, disaffected working class kids who were isolated with their angry, disaffected music. A scene broke out in New York that was much more violent, mean, and parochial than past scenes. This, plus the hardcore areas in the south, evolved into the nazi-hardcore scene.

BTW- the song "Nazi Punks F--- Off" was not about nazis, but was about the narrow expectations of hardcore fans, which limited what bands were allowed to do (no solos). There weren't any nazi punks when the song was written.

Hey thanks for the insight, that's really interesting. Sad, but interesting. I so wish I could've been around back in the heyday of american hardcore and whatnot...back when punk was easily distinguished as punk, and going to a punk show was a really crazy, rebellious thing to do. I'm only 19, but I feel old when I go to punk shows, although I'll go see Rancid as long as they tour

That's really cool that you were in the thick of it like that, I bet you have all kinds of crazy stories?

[JohnnyPustular]

Originally Posted by RyRob813

That's really cool that you were in the thick of it like that, I bet you have all kinds of crazy stories?

I teach in a university and get into a lot of conversations with students about "back in the day". Here's what they never understand: every generation, including this one, has its own cool scene. You just have to go out and find it or make it. Believe me-- 99.5% of people in 1980 had no idea hardcore was going on. The scene in Detroit was probably about 250 kids total, and about the same in Lansing (which was a great scene). There were no ads for shows and no radio play. Venues changed every week- sometimes a Bad Brains show at an old bowling alley, the next week Necros in the local anarchist headquarters meeting room, Minor Threat in some kid's basement. You had to know someone to find out where the shows were or to get tapes. Maybe, one record store in town would carry Clash or Sex Pistols or Jam records.

People in the scene were musicians and artists and writers and lunitics and politicos. Interesting people embracing life. They didn't copy, they made. As Kerouac said "the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn..."

I remember techno in SW Detroit under the Ambassador Bridge before England or New York heard of techno and raves.

Reggae shows were the 6 Jamaicans in town (Mikey Dread!), a couple hippie chicks, and punks.

I don't know where it is (I'm 47), but there is a cool scene out there somewhere. Your generation has more access to more people and more music and more ideas than my generation could ever imagine.

Go out and make the greatest scene ever!

[basslinejam]

Originally Posted by JohnnyPustular

I played second generation ska back in the 80s. For some reason, current (3rd gen) ska just doesn't do it for me. Check out the Two Tone bands from England for some rockin' bass lines- Specials, Bad Manners, Selector, English Beat.

That's the stuff. Also +1 on Skatalites.

Ska, like reggae, is harder than it sounds to get sounding right. Full band commitment necessary.