This is a serious question about Les Claypool's style of bass playing???

[suitlandkid2005]

I hope I put this in the right section. I was torn between putting here and bassist. I was wondering about Les Claypool's bass playing. I hear read sometimes how people hate him and stuff on here. I am thinking it may be because he isn't a traditional bassist or just make up sounds or whatever. I was just wondering is he just making sounds on his bass or does what he do go in any type of musical context? I ask because I am learning modes, keys, and theory, and such but I make up stuff sometimes just for fun. Like a little go outside the rules sort of thing. I was wondering is that cool. I mean I think the stuff Les Claypool does is amazing.

Also, if anyone cares to take a stab at this I would appreciate it.
Look at these videos..(you don't have to look at the whole thing..you can just look at them for a little bit)

Primus-Tommy The Cat(Spring Break '92)
Like I would really like to know what is he doing in the video
from 3:13 to 3:50-that just boggles my mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4P_OofC3xM&fmt=18

Primus - To defy the laws of tradition (Radio Jam)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyZq_...eature=related

Primus - greet the sacred cow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-WN...eature=related

My uncle says it just being a showman..just another bassman..nothing special...I have to disagree. I think he is incredible. If anyone could help me with my drawn out question then I would really appreciate it.

[Deluge Of Sound]

That's the Les Claypool method of slapping, popping, and tapping from 3:13-3:50.

Here's Larry Graham using the same technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2_SreKsg2k&fmt=18

[suitlandkid2005]

Oh yeah...I know about Mr. Larry Graham. He is the first reason why I picked up the bass next to Les Claypool. Thanks. I am wondering about all the other crazy stuff Les does. Is that just random noise that works for Primus or something that is in a real musical context?

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by suitlandkid2005

Is that just random noise that works for Primus or something that is in a real musical context?

Primus isn't a real musical context?

[DudeistMonk]

I'm not a big Primus fan (they are okay, but I can't listen to them constantly) but....

Les' stuff with The Frog Brigade and Oysterhead is superb, if you haven't heard this stuff you need to pick up Purple Onion and The Grand Pecking Order now!...you can tell he matured a lot and his tone is less abrasive now.

[Joe Gress]

Do your self a real treat, and go see him live. Absolutely worth it.

[tasty sweeps]

i think some of the 'crazy sound stuff' comes from equal parts wanting to make neat noise, trying to make a 3-piece sound BIG or small or squishy, etc.

i mean, who doesn't like sound? i sure as **** do.

ps. something happened to public schools when i left. it seems now they only teach some children how and when to use question marks, what constitutes a question, the difference between a question and a statement and the appropriate punctuation to be used.

i notice it far more on the internet. honestly i think the imposed ignorance of education might be getting worse, it almost never gets better, it just changes sometimes. maybe people are just confused overall and it that confusion springs forth in the form of the inappropriate punctuation.

class dismissed. i'm not going anywhere but you don't have to talk to me.

[Joe Gress]

Yeah, and capitalization. Where did that go?

[suitlandkid2005]

Is there anyone who can really answer my question please?

[suitlandkid2005]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

I'm not a big Primus fan (they are okay, but I can't listen to them constantly) but....

Les' stuff with The Frog Brigade and Oysterhead is superb, if you haven't heard this stuff you need to pick up Purple Onion and The Grand Pecking Order now!...you can tell he matured a lot and his tone is less abrasive now.

Thanks man..I am checking that out right now. lol

[20db pad]

Originally Posted by suitlandkid2005

Is there anyone who can really answer my question please?

If you apply principles learned in a music appreciation class, there is structure and logic to the stuff that Les plays that shows that he isn't playing random notes and assorted silliness. A lot of it doesn't fit into what the average listener expects, so it'll come off as pretty bizarre and left-of-center. I think That is what Les wants to begin with.

As far as traditional theory goes, most Primus jams have a blues scale/dominant tonality, but often expand beyond it. There's somewhat consonant, repetive figures that define the tune, then free improv sections, and then a return to the theme. Those themes allow you to hear a Primus piece and recognize it as "My Name is Mud" or "Jerry was a Racecar Driver".

[MirageBass]

As far as I know, he doesn't utilize too much theory, if at all. Most of his sound comes from the way he attacks the bass, not the notes he plays, which is an essential part of the primus sound. I mean, make no mistake, his sound is absolutely essential to Primus (the same for Herb/Brain and Ler), but most of his riffs tend to be the same lick over and over ver batim, but they all work with the songs and his vocals. So as long as it sounds bizarre and unique, he tends to use it. Generally tries to do darker-sounding stuff.

I must admit that the Spring Break performance was a lot of just trying to get unique sounds without a musical context.

I say this being a huge fan of Primus.

[Jake of Bass]

Please define what isn't a musical context. Or more accurately, what you think isn't a musical context. Because it's all music, even if it sounds random (music being an artform, art existing because it was created with some form of intent. Despite it's random nature, it was still intended by the musician, thus it has musical context).

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by suitlandkid2005

Is there anyone who can really answer my question please?

At first I thought you were asking if what Les Claypool did in Primus is musically valid or something, and no one can answer that question. Now I don't know what you're asking. It might help if you restated your question.

But yes, it's cool if you do that. You can play whatever you want.

[suitlandkid2005]

Originally Posted by 20db pad

If you apply principles learned in a music appreciation class, there is structure and logic to the stuff that Les plays that shows that he isn't playing random notes and assorted silliness. A lot of it doesn't fit into what the average listener expects, so it'll come off as pretty bizarre and left-of-center. I think That is what Les wants to begin with.

As far as traditional theory goes, most Primus jams have a blues scale/dominant tonality, but often expand beyond it. There's somewhat consonant, repetive figures that define the tune, then free improv sections, and then a return to the theme. Those themes allow you to hear a Primus piece and recognize it as "My Name is Mud" or "Jerry was a Racecar Driver".

Oh ok...I see..I was wondering did Les and the gang just jammed in a certain key until they heard something they liked and just kept it. I am still wondering how the blues scale/dominant tonality comes into play on such songs as you mentioned..."My Name is Mud" or "Jerry was a Racecar Driver"
It is like he just freaks out on the bass with the strumming, slapping, and the tapping. It still baffles me or maybe I am thinking too hard. My ear isn't too good yet but I hope to come up with some crazy stuff like that while being able to develop my own style.

Originally Posted by MirageBass

As far as I know, he doesn't utilize too much theory, if at all. Most of his sound comes from the way he attacks the bass, not the notes he plays, which is an essential part of the primus sound. I mean, make no mistake, his sound is absolutely essential to Primus (the same for Herb/Brain and Ler), but most of his riffs tend to be the same lick over and over ver batim, but they all work with the songs and his vocals. So as long as it sounds bizarre and unique, he tends to use it. Generally tries to do darker-sounding stuff.

I must admit that the Spring Break performance was a lot of just trying to get unique sounds without a musical context.

I say this being a huge fan of Primus.

I understand what you are saying; but I am still sitting here in sheer amazement. I listen to Primus or Les Claypool related music like everyday and I still scratch my head. I know he never took a lesson and use to play in a r&b/funk band back in the day. I read in an interview where he said he never knew how to play stuff by ear (I don't know about now...I'm talking about when he first started.) and just said he would just ask what key the group was playing in and just jammed. It's like when you look Les up; it seems as though he just wings it everything he does which is so cool. I am not going to begin to type out songs; but there are so many I can name and was wondering how the HELL does he come up with it. Puddin' Taine, Welcome To This World,Year Of The Parrot, Tommy The Cat(That song still boggles my mind.)

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

Please define what isn't a musical context. Or more accurately, what you think isn't a musical context. Because it's all music, even if it sounds random (music being an artform, art existing because it was created with some form of intent. Despite it's random nature, it was still intended by the musician, thus it has musical context).

So you are basically saying that anything goes in music? Just as long as it sounds go to you and it goes with what everyone else is playing? If this is true then one could switch between different keys and different modes right? I am thinking there should be know right or wrong way.

Originally Posted by lemur821

At first I thought you were asking if what Les Claypool did in Primus is musically valid or something, and no one can answer that question. Now I don't know what you're asking. It might help if you restated your question.

But yes, it's cool if you do that. You can play whatever you want.

When I said musical context, I meant that can a person who really knows there modes, keys, and everything sit there and look at Les Claypool's style of playing and say...Oh..To Defy The Laws Of Tradition is being playing in the key of D sharp major using this mode and so forth? Or was is it just Les Claypool taking his bass and making up stuff that he think that sounds cool to him? Les just goes crazy and comes up with a lot of bizarre things and I was just wondering? I meant musical context as in the realm of modes, keys, theory, and such.

[millsbass5]

Les is Les.Take it or leave it.He's got one thing going for him:Identity.One note and you know it's him.Just like Geddy.

[Jake of Bass]

"Musical context" means within the realm of music.

Music is basically organised sound involving pitch and meter (tempo/rhythm). Whether you perceive it as being "musical" or not is purely subjective. I hear a lot of stuff on top 40 that I don't think as being "music" per se, but that's within my subjectivity. Objectively, of course, it is indeed music.

Music is creative expression, it is an artform. Art only exists with intent. For example, a tree growing in a forest isn't art, but take that tree and turn it into something for some aesthetic value and that becomes art. Similar with music. A car driving past isn't musical, but sample that car and put it into some sonic framework or construct (pitch and/or meter) and it becomes music.

Les' playing may not always follow the "rules" of music, but that doesn't mean it's not musical. If noone had challenged the so called "rules" of music then we'd all still be singing gregorian chants in a very ordered fashion, and composing anything with a tritone would be a big no-no.

[trust24]

i remeber when i was having drum lessons telling my drum teacher that keith moon was my favourite and him saying yeah he was very flash but i dout he knew anything about musical theory. I remeber think does that really matter if your as good as keith moon. I dont think it matters what you can or cant do aslong as your bass/drumming etc fits the band you are playing with well. People seem to have an issue with other musicians that dont know much theory word

[MilkyMcMilkMilk]

if you search youtube u will find a vid lesson to learn to defy the laws of tradition.

[kanonfodr]

Originally Posted by MilkyMcMilkMilk

if you search youtube u will find a vid lesson to learn to defy the laws of tradition.

A second to the above is to grab the tab to whatever song you wish to learn, and just play around with it. I'm working on To Defy The Laws of Tradition right now. I'm by no means an expert, but every time I play I take a few whacks at the song to figure out at least some part of it.

It may seem like a long process, but I feel I can discover more about playing my instrument by paying attention to what I am doing while trying to understand what another bass player is doing. You may just learn a whole new trick by just messing around that will sound really cool or be that Eureka moment you are looking for.

Peace,
Greg