Sheet music notation for bass guitar, (only in F-clef?)

[René_Julien]

Lately I've been working on writing down sheet music for bass guitar.
Nothing special, just for personal practice, and if there is interest in this I'll gladly share my work.


But, I'm a novice still at writing it down. (my reading is... "acceptable" )

My problem is how to properly write the notes in the highest register.
Around G3 to D4, for now, just having a regular 4-string 20 fret bass guitar in mind. (Highest note in the range is D#4)

Is it acceptable that I write everything down in a bass clef staf? (see first line of the picture below)
Or do I need at some point use a treble clef? Like in the second line of the picture. (and yes I know, I should use 2 staffs instead of switching clefs on the same staff)

3rd and 4th line I wrote to see the range of a 6-string 24-fret bass guitar. (from B0 to C5)




Should it be written on one staff, bass clef, going high above the staff for the notation of the highest notes?
Or should it be written over 2 staffs, treble clef and bass clef, like piano sheet music for example.
Well, the bass clef for piano and bass clef for bass guitar and double bass is an octave apart.

I can imagine for ERBs and/or solowork working with two staffs would be handy.
But in most cases I find it silly, like in my case 4-string 20-frets, only needing the staff with a treble clef for several notes in my range.
(a lot of wasted space then)


Or would C-clefs or baritone clefs be handier for bass guitar notation?


Has anyone got experience and knowledge on this?

[Nashrakh]

8va and 15ma comes in handy. I'd rather use that

[Billnc]

I've seen everything you've mentioned done, sometimes entire pieces in tenor (C) clef. Never on the grand staff though. I prefer 8va.

[MalcolmAmos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef

I think what you are asking is when do you run out of bass clef and start being in the treble clef.
Or for bass guitar how do you notate those ledger notes (above "middle C") you have in your example. I understand the concept of using 8vb, but have not run into it on any sheet music, i.e. what would it look like on sheet music is my question....... and where on the bass fretboard are those "above middle C" notes? Does anyone have a chart or graph - perhaps like this - http://visualguitar.com/index.php - for the bass guitar, again, i.e. 6 string guitar is a 4 octave instrument and I understand where those octaves are on the 6 string fretboard, however I'm not sure how octaves are on the electric 4 string bass. Little help please.

Thanks, did not mean to steal the thread, but, I think this may also help the OP also.

[Snarf]

8va always throws me off. I always prefer to see the really high stuff (above A) in treble cleff.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by Nashrakh

8va and 15ma comes in handy. I'd rather use that

Originally Posted by Billnc

I've seen everything you've mentioned done, sometimes entire pieces in tenor (C) clef. Never on the grand staff though. I prefer 8va.

Ah thanks guys.
Yeah, 8va would probably be best for a traditional range bass guitar.

I didn't think about it, because I never come across it in sheet music.


So, I'm basicly free to write pieces with any clef I want to.
The normal bass clef with 8va seems the neatest for 4-string bass.

I guess for 6-string and above basses, with extensive solowork 2 staffs like a piano would be useful.


Well, my question got answered.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef

I think what you are asking is when do you run out of bass clef and start being in the treble clef.
Or for bass guitar how do you notate those ledger notes (above "middle C") you have in your example. I understand the concept of using 8vb, but have not run into it on any sheet music, i.e. what would it look like on sheet music is my question....... and where on the bass fretboard are those "above middle C" notes? Does anyone have a chart or graph - perhaps like this - http://visualguitar.com/index.php - for the bass guitar, again, i.e. 6 string guitar is a 4 octave instrument and I understand where those octaves are on the 6 string fretboard, however I'm not sure how octaves are on the electric 4 string bass. Little help please.

Thanks, did not mean to steal the thread, but, I think this may also help the OP also.

It had nothing to do with my question...

But thank you very much. Very useful and helpful to me.
I was about to find out how to do guitar notation.
Thanks.

[onlyclave]

The problem with using 8va is that an ascending line will have notes at the top of the staff and then drop to the bottom of the staff when the octave displacement is in effect and it's visually jarring and hard to read. Switching to treble clef will maintain the visual continuity and still show you the melodic shape.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

The problem with using 8va is that an ascending line will have notes at the top of the staff and then drop to the bottom of the staff when the octave displacement is in effect and it's visually jarring and hard to read. Switching to treble clef will maintain the visual continuity and still show you the melodic shape.

Yeah, but in my example with a traditional regular bass it would be overkill to go to the treble clef just for 5 (whole) notes... that you don't use much anyway.

I don't like the idea of 8va that much either, IMO it looks a bit sloppy. But when you don't need it that much it may be the wisest decision IMO.


I'm going to investigate if another clef is more suited for 4-string bass.
The baritone clef comes to mind at first, shifting everything a line downwards.


I have OCD, and I'm trying to find a way of notation that can be the easiest and accepted by everyone.

... off course, 5-string guys and ERBers would not accept it.

[BluesWalker]

You guys are all overthinking this. Do what works best for you. For me personally, I prefer to use bass clef for all notes, although I read treble clef very well I don't like to have the transition between bass and treble clef in a tune and I do not like 8va.

In regards to your OCD, direct it to playing your bass and stop wasting time on this silly topic.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by BluesWalker

You guys are all overthinking this. Do what works best for you. For me personally, I prefer to use bass clef for all notes, although I read treble clef very well I don't like to have the transition between bass and treble clef in a tune and I do not like 8va.

In regards to your OCD, direct it to playing your bass and stop wasting time on this silly topic.

Well, it's not so silly to me.
What's the harm in learning more about sheet music, reading and writing? It might make me a better theoretical musician, and maybe even practical.

I'm investigating how other bassists feel about the different possible notations.
To see what is generally acceptable, logic and efficient.

Thanks for your opinion.

I can't change that easily between treble and bass clef. I used to play clarinet and the treble clef I am most used to.
Lately I am practicing to read the bass clef.

[EADG mx]

Typically, the bass will switch to tenor clef or use an octave sign (8va) when playing in the higher registers. You can safely do either, but for what it's worth I typically see the tenor in orchestral bass parts and the 8va sign in pop, jazz, etc.

Like onlyclave pointed out, an 8va sign in the middle of a run doesn't work because it ruins the continuity of the line. The tenor clef is better for this. Don't forget it's totally acceptable to switch clefs in the middle of a measure. Use your judgement.

Lots of bass players can read parts in treble clef, but I have never seen a bass part (upright or electric) in treble clef.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by BluesWalker

In regards to your OCD, direct it to playing your bass and stop wasting time on this silly topic.

No need for this kind of attidude. If you think it's a silly topic, why bother to post ?

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Typically, the bass will switch to tenor clef or use an octave sign (8va) when playing in the higher registers. You can safely do either, but for what it's worth I typically see the tenor in orchestral bass parts and the 8va sign in pop, jazz, etc.

Like onlyclave pointed out, an 8va sign in the middle of a run doesn't work because it ruins the continuity of the line. The tenor clef is better for this. Don't forget it's totally acceptable to switch clefs in the middle of a measure. Use your judgement.

Lots of bass players can read parts in treble clef, but I have never seen a bass part (upright or electric) in treble clef.

Thanks for that.

I didn't knew the tenor clef for bass is being used much in the orchestral world.

And I didn't knew it's allowed to switch clef in the middle of a measure.
I just assumed it. I have a little collection of piano sheet music (I started learning piano a few months ago) and I don't recall seeing clef switching in the middle of a measure.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

Yeah, but in my example with a traditional regular bass it would be overkill to go to the treble clef just for 5 (whole) notes... that you don't use much anyway.

I don't like the idea of 8va that much either, IMO it looks a bit sloppy. But when you don't need it that much it may be the wisest decision IMO.


I'm going to investigate if another clef is more suited for 4-string bass.
The baritone clef comes to mind at first, shifting everything a line downwards.


I have OCD, and I'm trying to find a way of notation that can be the easiest and accepted by everyone.

... off course, 5-string guys and ERBers would not accept it.

The baritone clef is IMO a bad idea, because bass is conventionally written on the bass clef. If you're looking for a way that's "the easiest and accepted by everyone," that's not it.

There's no need to use two staves, either. That's just wasteful of space. You can use 8va, as noted. You can deal with the ledger lines as you did in the first example. Or you can switch to the treble clef for a few measures within the same staff. This is done all the time in piano parts, and there's no reason it couldn't be done in a bass part. I haven't seen this all that often, but it would be more efficient than writing an entire piece in two staves when doing so might only help in one or two measures.

When you're thinking of what would be convenient for you to write, you also have to think in terms of what's convenient for players to read. And part of convenience is familiarity.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Typically, the bass will switch to tenor clef or use an octave sign (8va) when playing in the higher registers. You can safely do either, but for what it's worth I typically see the tenor in orchestral bass parts and the 8va sign in pop, jazz, etc.

Like onlyclave pointed out, an 8va sign in the middle of a run doesn't work because it ruins the continuity of the line. The tenor clef is better for this. Don't forget it's totally acceptable to switch clefs in the middle of a measure. Use your judgement.

Lots of bass players can read parts in treble clef, but I have never seen a bass part (upright or electric) in treble clef.

I have never seen a tenor clef in an electric bass guitar part. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but I venture to say it's rare.

I actually have seen, and had to play, bass parts in treble clef. Not from highly schooled people, but from people who can't write in bass clef but do know what pitches they want to hear (guitarists all, if I recall).

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

The baritone clef is IMO a bad idea, because bass is conventionally written on the bass clef. If you're looking for a way that's "the easiest and accepted by everyone," that's not it.

There's no need to use two staves, either. That's just wasteful of space. You can use 8va, as noted. You can deal with the ledger lines as you did in the first example. Or you can switch to the treble clef for a few measures within the same staff. This is done all the time in piano parts, and there's no reason it couldn't be done in a bass part. I haven't seen this all that often, but it would be more efficient than writing an entire piece in two staves when doing so might only help in one or two measures.

When you're thinking of what would be convenient for you to write, you also have to think in terms of what's convenient for players to read. And part of convenience is familiarity.

Thank you for that last line in that post.

I guess that is very valuable advice. If I do end up writing some good sheet music, most likely I will share it with other bassists.
So that would be using the bass clef. For electric bass with the traditional range and below. For anything above, starting at 6-string range switching to the treble clef is necessary I assume.

Only I'm gonna have to figure out what would be more comfortable, more upper ledgers or 8va.

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

I have never seen a tenor clef in an electric bass guitar part. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but I venture to say it's rare.

I actually have seen, and had to play, bass parts in treble clef. Not from highly schooled people, but from people who can't write in bass clef but do know what pitches they want to hear (guitarists all, if I recall).

Good thing I still can read treble clef from my clarinet days. Although not as fluent as I used too.

Boy, I realize I still got a lot to practice on my sight reading too.
I figured writing what I want to practice down in sheet music... "the proper way"... would help me along with my sight reading.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

The baritone clef is IMO a bad idea, because bass is conventionally written on the bass clef. If you're looking for a way that's "the easiest and accepted by everyone," that's not it.

Agreed on all accounts except for this.

I've never had to switch clefs in my bass parts (I would rather use the 8va sign or just deal with the ledger lines, personally). But if I were to switch clefs in a bass part (upright or electric), it would be to the tenor clef.

[mwiles30]

8va is nice, and so is treble clef once you hit the 12th fret.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Agreed on all accounts except for this.

I've never had to switch clefs in my bass parts (I would rather use the 8va sign or just deal with the ledger lines, personally). But if I were to switch clefs in a bass part (upright or electric), it would be to the tenor clef.

if it works for you, cool. But I would respectfully suggest that there probably aren't too many other electric bass guitarists who read and, more to the point, prefer tenor clef for this kind of thing. The OP does appear to want to make things as widely accessible as possible, and I still feel tenor clef would not be the best way of accomplishing that goal, regardless of its potential utility in, say, orchestral double bass parts.

But to each his or her own.

[MalcolmAmos]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that treble clef is normally where you find the melody (the tune) and bass clef is where you find the harmony (the chords).

Makes since to me to keep the two separate.