Sight Reading - How much is enough?

[Rebecky]

I've been working really hard at reading standard notation for about a year and I think I'm getting pretty good at it. I really want to make a living out of playing bass so I felt this was a important thing to focus on.

But at what point can you say "I can sight read!"? When you're putting together a musical CV or just talking to someone about work posibilities, you don't want to lie!

I tend to say that I can sight read, but I can't sight read everything! I mean, what are the chances you'll end up with a piece in Db major at 165bpm with sixteenth notes all over the place and no repeating phrases - and you're not allowed to look at or hear the music before the gig... To me I feel that sight reading is one of those things that just gets better slowly with time, even those with a decades of experience can still have room to improve.

Anyone got any thoughts? Am I getting ahead of myself here?

[Melik]

I'm constantly thinking the same thing. I think I'm never going to be as good sight reader as I'd like to be! =( Because I feel that I'm stuck, not improving at all. But I guess that you just should read as much as you can, when ever you can!

[christoph h.]

Well, it's all relative. Vinnie Colaiuta supposedly can read anything thrown at him and in an interview he said he's a "pretty good" sightreader - probably because he's met several people that can read just as good as him (on their respective instruments).

But I'd say if you can read all the stuff from "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown" at the indicated tempos without problems you're a good (or even very good) sightreader. If you can read from the Charlie Parker omnibook at high tempos, than you're an amazing sightreader.
If you can read a basic bassline at first sight then you can do... "basic sightreading".

Regarding "How much is enough?": If you find you can get through every situation you are put in without problems, than it's enough. So if you're in a punk band, doing everything by ear, than "no reading skill" may be enough (not including other reasons such as personal improvement). But since you want to make a living as a bassist getting "as good as you possibly can" is probably a good idea.

[EricT43]

I think the ability to read music even counts against you if you play in a punk band.

I wonder this myself as I'm teaching myself to read standard notation. Am I successful when I can read a piece the first time through without mistakes? Or is it OK if I read through it slowly first and then bring the tempo up? Like Christoph said, I think it just depends on when you are satisfied with your abilities, when you can read well enough to do what you want to do.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Rebecky

I've been working really hard at reading standard notation for about a year and I think I'm getting pretty good at it. I really want to make a living out of playing bass so I felt this was a important thing to focus on.

But at what point can you say "I can sight read!"? When you're putting together a musical CV or just talking to someone about work posibilities, you don't want to lie!

I tend to say that I can sight read, but I can't sight read everything! I mean, what are the chances you'll end up with a piece in Db major at 165bpm with sixteenth notes all over the place and no repeating phrases - and you're not allowed to look at or hear the music before the gig... To me I feel that sight reading is one of those things that just gets better slowly with time, even those with a decades of experience can still have room to improve.

Anyone got any thoughts? Am I getting ahead of myself here?

i would bet it's like the symphonic guys....most days it's not too taxing,but you have to be able to do the tough stuff when they hand it to you....there is always room to improve....i've thought about it myself and i wonder if a piano teacher might be the way to go....they see phrases every day that a bass guy might see only once in a while....i've heard that good readers can look at a phrase as some sort of shorthand and know instinctively how it will sound........how you learn that,or if the average joe can learn that,i dunno....

i handed a bass guitar teacher here some charts i was working on and he looked at them like they were written in mandarin,so maybe see if there is classical training available in your area .....seems to me that self teaching is limiting.....

[gmahoog]

I've found that focusing on rhythm patterns has really helped me. I still consider myself a below average reader, but I'm good enough to be able to figure out a line with a little work. There a books dedicated to the rhythm that are really good. For me, the notes aren't as much of a struggle, but ties into the next measure just kill me.

[EricT43]

Originally Posted by gmahoog

I've found that focusing on rhythm patterns has really helped me. I still consider myself a below average reader, but I'm good enough to be able to figure out a line with a little work. There a books dedicated to the rhythm that are really good. For me, the notes aren't as much of a struggle, but ties into the next measure just kill me.

I'm the opposite. I played drum corps stuff in high school so I can sight-read read rhythms all day long, but I'm struggling with the notes. Just takes a lot of practice I guess. I played trumpet in grade school band and I remember reaching a point where I could play through a sheet of music without thinking too much about what was written on the staff, or the key signature, so I suppose I could get to that point again.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by EricT43

Am I successful when I can read a piece the first time through without mistakes? Or is it OK if I read through it slowly first and then bring the tempo up? Like Christoph said, I think it just depends on when you are satisfied with your abilities, when you can read well enough to do what you want to do.

It all depends on what you want to do, indeed. But if What You Want To Do is "make a living out of playing bass" (as the OP specified) it is far more likely that you'll succeed if you can nail it the first time through without mistakes.

Of all the professional gigs I've ever done -- in other words, I'm not including any of the garage bands or charity gigs or personal projects, just the jobs where I was paid to play the bass -- I'd bet that 90% of them required that I be able to read music, and of those, 99% of them did not give me the charts in advance of the gig. So the majority of the income that I earned as a bassist required the ability to sight read a part "under the gun". One chance only, no "do-overs" or fixes or can-I-go-shed-that-bridge-section-for-an-hour-before-we-play-it?

And believe me, after I'd only been reading for one year I could not do that, so OP, don't be too hard on yourself! Heck, I've been sight reading on bass for over 30 years and there are still occasional charts I'll get that cause me to have a momentary panic attack! Mercifully the really dense/difficult parts rarely show up on the typical working gig; the guys writing really thorny intricate stuff usually have realistic expectations about what they're gonna get on a first take, so if they write dodecaphonic 16th-note 11:7-tuplets for the bassist they'll either get you the charts well in advance of the gig, or they'll hire a bassist they already know is capable of sight-reading that kind of flypoop.

[Rebecky]

Thanks guys, yes it definately needs more work, especially with rhythms. I think I got a bit ahead of myself when my bass teacher gave me a copy of the sheet music for Jesus Christ Superstar that he used when he played in a production of it... I found the audio for it online and blasted through without any preparation and was quite successful in following the music! It was quite an easy chart to follow though, I just wasn't sure what the standard is for most gigs.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Rebecky

my bass teacher gave me a copy of the sheet music for Jesus Christ Superstar that he used when he played in a production of it... I found the audio for it online and blasted through without any preparation and was quite successful in following the music! It was quite an easy chart to follow though, I just wasn't sure what the standard is for most gigs.

Perhaps this will put it into perspective: 22 years ago I got hired to play in the pit band for a touring musical theater company, to replace an exiting musician for the final six weeks of a bus&truck tour all over Germany, Switzerland, & Italy. Made more money per week than I ever had previously, and, to be honest, I think it took another 10 years before I saw another paycheck that rivaled it. And they didn't send me the charts in advance, I got off the train from the Zurich Airport to the town of Whateverthehellstein where the theater was, introduced myself to the Music Director, plugged in, gave the sound man 4 notes to confirm line continuity, and BAM! opening downbeat.

The show was Jesus Christ Superstar.



...so I'd say yer doin' pretty darn okay.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Hoover

Perhaps this will put it into perspective: 22 years ago I got hired to play in the pit band for a touring musical theater company, to replace an exiting musician for the final six weeks of a bus&truck tour all over Germany, Switzerland, & Italy. Made more money per week than I ever had previously, and, to be honest, I think it took another 10 years before I saw another paycheck that rivaled it. And they didn't send me the charts in advance, I got off the train from the Zurich Airport to the town of Whateverthehellstein where the theater was, introduced myself to the Music Director, plugged in, gave the sound man 4 notes to confirm line continuity, and BAM! opening downbeat.

The show was Jesus Christ Superstar.



...so I'd say yer doin' pretty darn okay.

perhaps you could suggest some ways/materials one could use to improve,and if you feel that this is something most can learn or is having a "knack" necessary.....what do you think about a piano or other than a bass guy sight reading teacher idea

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

perhaps you could suggest some ways/materials one could use to improve,and if you feel that this is something most can learn or is having a "knack" necessary.....what do you think about a piano or other than a bass guy sight reading teacher idea

Read whatever you can get your hands on and do it everyday. The more you do it, the more confident you get at doing, it's just like anything else, to do it well you have to do it over and over.

[christoph h.]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

perhaps you could suggest some ways/materials one could use to improve,and if you feel that this is something most can learn or is having a "knack" necessary.....what do you think about a piano or other than a bass guy sight reading teacher idea

Having a "knack" is not at all necessary. That's why I don't think you'll need a special "sight reading teacher". Just keep doing it regularly, like Phil said.

On the other hand, if your current bass teacher can't read, I'd re-evaluate whether he's the right guy for you. I'd say there's big chance he isn't.

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Rebecky

I've been working really hard at reading standard notation for about a year and I think I'm getting pretty good at it. I really want to make a living out of playing bass so I felt this was a important thing to focus on.

But at what point can you say "I can sight read!"? When you're putting together a musical CV or just talking to someone about work posibilities, you don't want to lie!

I tend to say that I can sight read, but I can't sight read everything! I mean, what are the chances you'll end up with a piece in Db major at 165bpm with sixteenth notes all over the place and no repeating phrases - and you're not allowed to look at or hear the music before the gig... To me I feel that sight reading is one of those things that just gets better slowly with time, even those with a decades of experience can still have room to improve.

Anyone got any thoughts? Am I getting ahead of myself here?

If you need to ask it is because you are not ready !!!

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

Read whatever you can get your hands on and do it everyday. The more you do it, the more confident you get at doing, it's just like anything else, to do it well you have to do it over and over.

i do....i have a room full of charts....but i find it limiting,and more walls than bridges.....maybe it's easier when you're young.....

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

i do....i have a room full of charts....but i find it limiting,and more walls than bridges.....maybe it's easier when you're young.....

Well, I wouldn't know how easy it is when you're young. You should inject yourself into situations where reading is required, community productions of theater shows is a good way to move your reading chops along.

[Rebecky]

I've ruined all my bass books by covering up all the tab and learning it all over again, I found that helped! I played piano when I was a child so I suppose that helped a lot, and through school we always worked with standard notation although I absolutely hated it until last year. Yes I think I'll take the next two years at uni to improve on it before I go trying to wiggle my way into work that I can't really handle!

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Rebecky

I've ruined all my bass books by covering up all the tab and learning it all over again, I found that helped! I played piano when I was a child so I suppose that helped a lot, and through school we always worked with standard notation although I absolutely hated it until last year. Yes I think I'll take the next two years at uni to improve on it before I go trying to wiggle my way into work that I can't really handle!

There is much more to sight-reading then just read the notes.

You can read chord charts also. You can read song structures also with DS signs,Coda, repeats...etc.

But two important things are to play accurate time and don't get lost in the music.

Make sure you understand what you read and also play it as if you know the music. In a gig context,if you read all the notes but the time is all over the place,then you are not reading well enough because you have to perform the music also.

When you get really good at it, then you start to take some notes off or improve the bassline or even correct errors on the charts also, Yes there are! ;-)

Good luck,

[Buxtehude]

Originally Posted by Rebecky

I've been working really hard at reading standard notation for about a year and I think I'm getting pretty good at it. I really want to make a living out of playing bass so I felt this was a important thing to focus on.

But at what point can you say "I can sight read!"? When you're putting together a musical CV or just talking to someone about work posibilities, you don't want to lie!

I tend to say that I can sight read, but I can't sight read everything! I mean, what are the chances you'll end up with a piece in Db major at 165bpm with sixteenth notes all over the place and no repeating phrases - and you're not allowed to look at or hear the music before the gig... To me I feel that sight reading is one of those things that just gets better slowly with time, even those with a decades of experience can still have room to improve.

Anyone got any thoughts? Am I getting ahead of myself here?

You have to keep it up and read harder and harder music. If you get bored try some classical cello parts for variety. If you want to be a pro then you should be able to read easy music at sight and hard music after a few goes.

[Buxtehude]

Play all the written parts in the bass guitar mags. Try to get a job in a show. Become a reading accompanist for students doing exams. When you have none of these options, read any music you have lying around. Remember that 'sight' reading means being able to read it first time, sight unseen. You have to do it heaps. But bassists who are good readers are rare so it's profitable.