Simple basslines allowed?

[Kickin'Fruit]

Hi, our band just annouced our first gig Nov. 3rd. We play mostly originals and if anyone has followed my posting on this band, they picked me up as the bassist and I don't think I'm that experienced. Anyway, the songs we play are like metal and I'm looking for some reassurance of what I'm playing or some help to make it more 'convincing'.

I feel like just playing 8th notes over the chords is boring and "not allowed". As if they would be better off without me cause I'm not really doing much. It's too much like "da-da-da-da, dum dum dum dum, da-da-da-da". Could you suggest some music to listen to, things to do, to make my basslines more than just boring? I mean we try to be a high energy band, and if I'm trying to establish stage presence, I don't want to be dancing about to my one note beat. Thanks for any help, sorry if I'm vague.

[sedan_dad]

I know what your saying.I think you can run into that no matter what kind of music your playing.
On the other hand,look at bands like AC/DC. They pull it off though.
When your forced to hug one note ,dive into the groove.
How good can it sound if everyone is shredding.

[Sean S]

Dude, it's okay to play simple!

I've seen other posts of yours, and here's what I have to say: Have confidence in yourself, man! and do the best you can...

btw, what kinda music is it...that might help...

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Bobb

Dude, it's okay to play simple!

I've seen other posts of yours, and here's what I have to say: Have confidence in yourself, man! and do the best you can...

btw, what kinda music is it...that might help...

I agree man! Just go out there and do it. Pumpin' 8th notes isn't "simple". It sounds easy, but you've gotta' lock-in.

Have Confidence. Be Confident. You are not expected to go out there and tear-it-up. You ARE expected to go out there and hold-it-down. Provide a solid sonic foundation for your group.

Be positive. It's a huge bummer when musicians in groups are down on themselves for making a mistake. Everyone is gonna mess up in some way on the gig. Big deal. Be confident and be positive. We know that you're not messing up on purpose.

Keep it simple. It's such a cool feeling when you lock-in so well with the drummer that it sounds as if bass drum is providing your bass notes.

Be Confident.

Joe

[RWP]

As far as I know ZZ Tops bass lines never won any awards. Yet they are a killer band. I think simple played in the pocket is much better than fancy loosing the groove. Work on good tone and perfect timing. IMHO

[Kickin'Fruit]

it's like metal somewhat, more alternative than anything. Should my notes always come on the bassdrum kick or more than often? I'm having trouble listening, because I feel like I'm too focused on what I'm supposed to be playing. I like the idea that I should be holding down a groove but what if the pattern of the guitars change? should I follow it? I was attracted to the bass because I wanted to hold down the sonic spectrum, so to speak, in music. I wanted to be that guy in the background that pretty much holds the song together while the rest of the band does fills and such, but sometimes I'm too concerned with trying to mimic the guitars that I leave the drummer behind and I don't feel like the rythym section anymore.

[wtg203]

Thats the beauty and difficulty of being the bass player. You need to 'lock in' with the drummer (not necessarily copy), and provide a harmonic base for the guitars. I think everyone else covered this, but as far as certain things being "allowed", that concept is kind of whack. Whatever you play is allowed. Simplicity is grossly under-rated.

[Disco_Gee]

I'm not the best bass player but I have a few suggestions that may help. I agree with what everyone else here is saying. There are a few bassic things that you can do to spice up a simple root-note bassline though. Rather than just playing straight 8ths or 16ths, try to throw a bit of feeling into it. Listen to what the drummer is doing with the bass drum and stick a couple of rests into the line to fit into what he's doing. Often the difference between a boring root note bassline and an interesting one is the exclusion of a couple of notes - it can add groove and feeling. I also like to throw in a couple of other notes to build tension and add dynamic. Say the final chord going from a pre chorus into a chorus is G, and eveyone is supposed to be building up into the big amazing chorus. You could add a fifth about 1 bar, or half a bar before the chorus. So instead of this:

G-----------------------
D-----------------------
A-----------------------
E--3333333333333333---

Play something like this:

G-----------------------
D-----------------------
A---------------5555----
E--333333333333--------

Really simple, simple stuff but it can make a massive difference to the sound and feel of a simple bassline. I sometimes like to slide up octaves too, things like that.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by Disco_Gee

I'm not the best bass player but I have a few suggestions that may help. I agree with what everyone else here is saying. There are a few bassic things that you can do to spice up a simple root-note bassline though. Rather than just playing straight 8ths or 16ths, try to throw a bit of feeling into it. Listen to what the drummer is doing with the bass drum and stick a couple of rests into the line to fit into what he's doing. Often the difference between a boring root note bassline and an interesting one is the exclusion of a couple of notes - it can add groove and feeling. I also like to throw in a couple of other notes to build tension and add dynamic. Say the final chord going from a pre chorus into a chorus is G, and eveyone is supposed to be building up into the big amazing chorus. You could add a fifth about 1 bar, or half a bar before the chorus. So instead of this:

G-----------------------
D-----------------------
A-----------------------
E--3333333333333333---

Play something like this:

G-----------------------
D-----------------------
A---------------5555----
E--333333333333--------

Really simple, simple stuff but it can make a massive difference to the sound and feel of a simple bassline. I sometimes like to slide up octaves too, things like that.

Cool, I've had that idea but again, wasn't sure of the rules. Is this 5th note 'safe' because the 5th of a chord is the same whether it's major or minor? I've been doing some ear training on this program and something just makes me forget all that when it's time to play, I guess I feel rushed because I don't have any recordings to work with.

Heh, it's funny, I feel like I'm being petty about this, I just need some confidence builders like getting told when I come up with something (yeah that sounds great!) or (wow! that sounds like crap!) constructive criticism.

[Disco_Gee]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Cool, I've had that idea but again, wasn't sure of the rules. Is this 5th note 'safe' because the 5th of a chord is the same whether it's major or minor? I've been doing some ear training on this program and something just makes me forget all that when it's time to play, I guess I feel rushed because I don't have any recordings to work with.

Heh, it's funny, I feel like I'm being petty about this, I just need some confidence builders like getting told when I come up with something (yeah that sounds great!) or (wow! that sounds like crap!) constructive criticism.

Rules are good because they give you guidelines about what you can work with, but in the end it comes down to what sounds good. The 5th is kind of a safe note so it's good to use, but you don't want to get in the habbit of using only it. The best thing you can do is just experiment with different things. You'll know if something sounds good because either nobody will notice, or if it sounds really good they will tell you so. Conversely, if it doesn't sound good you'll know because the band will stop and look at you with weird looks on their faces (been there, done that!) Sometime I will sit down and practice just jamming around 1 or 2 particular chords. When I first started this 95% of what I played sounded like rubbish. But now I have a feel for what different chords sound like and what notes from those chords sound good together and so I'm more confident with what I play. I can improvise a lot better now than I used to and I'm more confident playing bass lines of my own creation. It's probably worth you trying it too.

You aren't being petty. It's better to ask these sorts of questions than to try and figure it out by yourself!

[Jazz Ad]

To me this is one of the hardest tricks a bass player has to learn.
It can take years to realize that less is more. We're supposed to support the band and play for the song. More than often, the simplest line will be what works the best.
So, playing roots isn't boring for the crowd. It may be for you though but with time you will devellop ways to keep things interesting without resorting to scale pouring.
Play with confidence, don't play more than you can and work on tightness with the drums. It will be more appreciated than any wanky lick.

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Should my notes always come on the bassdrum kick or more than often?

I didn't actually mean to only play when the bass drum kicks. I meant that when the bass drum kicks, it sounds like it has a pitch because of what you're doing.

Sometimes a tune will go into a "half-feel". Listen for the pulse of the tune and follow it. You'll know what to do.

Joe

What's the name of your band? I actually grew up in the Rochester area.

[BrandonBass]

1. Try to listen to bassists who are melodic, its kinda boring to bassists who just play root notes and no stage presence...and I personally do think they can be replaced by someone who fits the image, characters of the band....

for a start you can listen to the obvious ones like flea and geddy lee. Also, Matt Freeman of Rancid and Tetsu of l'arc en ciel

if you really run out of creativity you can vary the rhythm between ur root notes. like steve harris' gallop

and lastly, you CAN have stage presence even if you just play rootnotes. Actually its usually the bassists who play simple that has the most stage presence. Just look up at the videos from youtube of NIkki Sixx and dee dee ramone

[Blunt]

One of the most simple ways of spicing up a rock line is to use the seventh. Sting used this all the time on major chords and use the dominant if it sounds right.
Simple passing notes between chords can open it up for you.

The octave the fifth don't get in any ones way if used correctly.

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

I feel like just playing 8th notes over the chords is boring and "not allowed". As if they would be better off without me cause I'm not really doing much. It's too much like "da-da-da-da, dum dum dum dum, da-da-da-da".

You still haven't got what bass is all about or even what a musical "Group" is about. Especially for bass it isn't about playing a lot of notes it about playing in the pocket, laying down a groove and yes Metal has to groove as much as funk. When a whole band is play together in time making the music come alive it is groovin'. It will sound like a train coming down the tracks.

That bring up my second point and that is playing as a group. If the guitar players are playing busy parts, you should probably being laying back holding down the groove. It is about arranging a song and not stepping on each other. So you have to listen and god forbid talk to the drummer and guitar player to come up with parts that fit together. You need to become one with the drummer. You want to work a lot make a drummer sound good and he will make sure you get calls.

Remember playing bass (or any instrument) is about making music. I don't know any bass player that got fired for playing simple and solid. Look at big money makers like Bob Glaub, Pino, Nathan East, Leland Sklar they are on thousands of hits because of their simple solid playing.

[Jazz Ad]

+1.

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by steveb98

Look at big money makers like Bob Glaub, Pino, Nathan East, Leland Sklar they are on thousands of hits because of their simple solid playing.

Exactly! I'm sure that any one of these guys could do stuff that would melt your face off; however, they give the song what it needs.

You don't want to put too much spice in a recipe or you'll ruin the balance of flavors.

Joe

[OysterBoy]

I think you'd be safe even if you just played with octaves and matched the drum beat patterns. Instead of doing say, 8 8th notes in a bar, you can mix it up with a quarter note on the first and/or third beats. Still the same notes, just different beat emphasis and attack. Then again, with most metal, the idea is many fast notes. Sound shapes are pretty useful as well, if you know the basic scale everyone is playing in you can just throw in some of those notes at your own discretion. Practice it first, obviously, but the biggest thing to avoid is overplaying. I had a big problem, like a lot of people do, with overplaying, and trying to force too much into too small a space. To me, a good bass player is someone who knows when to just lay back and groove, but isn't afraid of juicing it up every now and again.

[Audiophage]

What is you band called and where are you playing on November 3rd? I live in Rochester and attend MCC, I might check try and check you guys out.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by Audiophage

What is you band called and where are you playing on November 3rd? I live in Rochester and attend MCC, I might check try and check you guys out.

Well I guess I'll just have to take the flak of my anonymity goes in the can but no harm in admitting I was looking for help right?

Our band's name is Code Name Cobra and we're playing at the Elixer Nov. 3rd. Opening for a band called Pia Mater.

Guys thanks for all the positive reinforcement. A guy can think he has the notion of the essence of a bass player then come to find out I know nothing at all. All of this is reinforcing my ideas of what I should and shouldn't be. I really don't want to be a guy to be in the spotlight, I just want to be a supporter of the group, kinda like a valiant bassist who is there when you need him and shines when he needs to. I just want to make the audience turn their head once in a while in a group setting, or come up with something funky when it's needed or just to suffice my own ears.

I really like the beats of reggae (namely Sublime) and I like the background sonic filling that is progressive rock such as Tim Commerford. And to round it all of I'd say I love Jeff Ament's ability to be behind the scenes and just make the sound that much more gut punching. I am guessing that with the more I listen and play their songs it might just come through me when I want it to. Right?