So, how exactly is bass not as complicated as guitar?

[WCF]

[EDIT] Title a bit misleading, I mean to say "How exactly is bass as complicated as guitar"

I've seen this topic in the forum, all the time. I know we've all had butt-ins with people who underestimate the bass, but I've never really seen much of an explanation as to why the bass deserves just as much respect as the guitar, in terms of difficulty to play. Today, as my sister was playing guitar at our store, several people who could play guitar started talking to us, and when I mentioned me playing bass, the typical answer was that the bass is simple. My dad was even laughing behind the counter because he's told me before that the bass is simple.

Now, I know some of you are thinking "Well, if you have to ask...". Well, your probably right. I only started playing bass a couple months ago, so if I tried to argue with a guitarist I'd probably have no idea what I was talking about. I feel them putting down the bass as offensive to me personally, but I can never really argue for much other than "No it's not! blah blah". So bassists, what is it exactly that makes the bass complicated, and how do you respond to these comments? Seriously, I'm not exaggerating when I say everyone but one or two people I've talked to about my bass consider it to be inferior.

By the way, I'm sorry if this is on the wrong forum.

[meev992]

Bass has the same complexity as guitar. My reasoning is that, there have been plenty of trail-blazers, in terms of technique (Harmonics, chordal playing, tapping, all of which would not be possible, on say, an upright bass).

Bass is a holistic instrument. One must get to know the drummer, and how their instrument relates to yours. For the drummer, the bassist acts as a guide to the rest of the band's (melodic content). In many ways, the Bass is the missing link between these two.

When I first started playing (guitar), I looked at drums and bass, as just other instruments that backed me up, and I was to be the center of attention. You will encounter this sort of attitude, throughout life.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by WCF

I know we've all had butt-ins with people who underestimate the bass, but I've never really seen much of an explanation as to why the bass deserves just as much respect as the guitar, in terms of difficulty to play.

Because that's simply not an appropriate basis upon which to evaluate it. This is the same old, tired-out "athletics" metaphor that bassists have been hearing for so many years now - often from non-musicians. Or at least from rather unsophisticated and/or ignorant musicians...

I'm gonna say it one more time: Folks, this is music - not the Olympic Decathlon. You can play a zillion notes per second and perform some of the most amazing feats of physical dexterity ever to grace the Guinness Book of World Records. That still doesn't necessarily make it music...

Originally Posted by WCF

So bassists, what is it exactly that makes the bass complicated, and how do you respond to these comments? Seriously, I'm not exaggerating when I say everyone but one or two people I've talked to about my bass consider it to be inferior.

Again, whether or not it is complicated misses the point. The point is: How well does the instrument (in this case, the bass) perform its given role in (name your genre) music? To what degree does it liberate - or constrain - the creation of new forms & styles? Basically, what can you do with it, and how well does it work for music that people actually want to hear? And so on...

Granted, most bassists are not going to be able to shred like Eddie Van Halen or Steve Vai. But is that really a proper role for a bassist? (Well, if you're Billy Sheehan, yeah I guess. But is the bass really built for that?) How many guitarists can lay down a monster low-end fusion groove like Alain Caron or John Patitucci? But is that really a proper role for a guitarist? Then how can you even use the term "inferior"? What exactly does "inferior" even mean in this context? It becomes meaningless gibberish...

Both the theremin and the bagpipes are reputed to be quite difficult to master. So they ought to rate right at the top of the "respect" hierarchy then, right? When was the last time you searched on YouTube for a cool bagpipes jam? Or downloaded some groovin' theremin tunes to your iPod? Are you gettin' my point yet?

People have a God-given right to think like idiots. That doesn't mean you have to be one of them...

MM

[ras1983]

IMO all instruments are as complicated as each other and require many hours of practice to be a proficient musician.

The music theory is the same for all the instruments (the scales, modes, chords, intervals etc), its the technique required that differentiates the different instruments - not by difficulty, but by the physical differences that different instruments have.

To be quite honest - and this may come across as arrogant - , until a musician starts studying improvisation (i.e. jazz) the skill required to improvise on ANY instrument won't be immediately apparent and they may have a biased opinion as to how much respect a given instrument should get.

As far as i am concerned, its the musician that deserves the respect at the end of the day and not the instrument.

[Taylor Livingston]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Both the theremin and the bagpipes are reputed to be quite difficult to master. So they ought to rate right at the top of the "respect" hierarchy then, right? When was the last time you searched on YouTube for a cool bagpipes jam? Or downloaded some groovin' theremin tunes to your iPod?

I downloaded some solo theremin music yesterday. I have some great recordings of Clara Rockmore, the virtuoso thereminist. I've also got a few CDs with bagpipe solos that are amazing. Here you're slighting two incredibly interesting instruments because you think someone else is being closed-minded about the instrument you play.

I completely agree with your point that music is not a competition and therefore music that's harder to play isn't necessarily good music, and to look at music as if it is a sport is missing the point. But I think your question about what the "proper role" for any instrument or musician should be is also missing the point. Pretty much the same as pondering if working in an office is really the proper role for a woman. I think that if an instrument is capable of producing a sound, then that is an acceptable sound for that instrument to make. No instrument should be forced to work some job it doesn't want to do (or kept away from a job it wants).

[waffle puzzle]

With some notable acceptions......

Bass is a BAND instrument, meant to be played in an ensemble setting, complementing and bridging the gap between rhythm and melody.

Guitar is a more versatile SOLO instrument that can be used by itself in addition to a band setting.

You're not gonna be thumpin' a bass alone around a campfire sing-a-long like a guitar, but a guitar can't bridge that low frequency gap between rhythm and melody like a bass.

Each has their own place, and really cannot be compared....even though they are both primates in the same family.

[brake]

If they ask you that in all seriousness, then why do you care about such an idiots opinion? Their minds are obviously made up already.

[OtterOnBass]

Let's be honest: Bass can be simple.

I think the thing that separates bass and guitar is chords. Beginners can hold down a fat string with one finger. Beginners cannot form chords to play guitar. Viola - a difficult instrument and a simple instrument in the eyes of the novice.

Bass is as difficult as guitar because you can use both to the level of complexity that you want. If you want to do something that seems difficult to beginners, learn slap bass.

[nasaldischarges]

yeah... that cliff williams guy really expanded my bassing horizons. NOT!!!

but seriously, he did all that he needed to do. would ACDC sound any better with a zillion notes or funky syncopation underneath angus' and malcolms guitar? no, and adding either would probably sound horrible. it's knowing what sound to put where that makes the bass player, and so i'm gonna say that the more styles a bassist can sound competent in, the better, and the better the bass player.

[skaliwag66]

The mere size of the thing makes it hard.

[Boltbaby]

Originally Posted by skaliwag66

The mere size of the thing makes it hard.

Well, if we are going there, it also takes quite a lot of stamina to play bass. You can't just "drop out" and take a break when you feel like it like guitarists tend to do on a regular basis. Songs don't completely fall apart if a guitarist makes a little mistake because the RHYTHM SECTION KEEPS GOING!

That, my friend, is what makes bass just as hard as guitar if you ask me. We are like the mailman...not the center of attention, but always delivering.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

IMHO bass is more complex...

Guitar, you supply a melodic element... rhythmic is not as important... if a guitar player doesnt have good rhythm then you have a bad GUITAR player in the band...

With a bass player, you supply a melodic FOUNDATION, you supply a rhythmic FOUNDATION. if a bass player doesnt have good rhythm / groove / harmonic choice, you have a bad BAND.

[cowsgomoo]

it's only ever teenage rock guitarists that say bass is easy... that's because rock bass generally IS easy, usually far easier than rock guitar

the answer: stop having conversations with teenage rock guitarists...

other (usually more mature) musicians in other genres invariably respect the bass... how many great jazz musicians will tell you bass is easy? exactly...

stop listening to people who aren't worth listening to !

[Erick Lam]

It's the bass lines that are typically easier to play on bass. The instrument itself is technically more difficult. The exact same line is easier to play on guitar than bass.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

People have a God-given right to think like idiots. That doesn't mean you have to be one of them...

If I was to use a signature quote that would be it. Can we close this thread now?

[meev992]

Originally Posted by waffle puzzle

You're not gonna be thumpin' a bass alone around a campfire sing-a-long like a guitar,

how about if you play "Personal Jesus", slap-style?

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by meev992

Bass has the same complexity as guitar. My reasoning is that, there have been plenty of trail-blazers, in terms of technique (Harmonics, chordal playing, tapping, all of which would not be possible, on say, an upright bass).

Say that again:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q_9Ihw2ir1g

or now:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Bd3PcWrNtg

[CallieBum73]

I think the bass player has the most important role in the band. You link the entire thing together....you ARE the heartbeat..the backbone....the feel of the whole thing. And you are exspected to know everything...every note on that bass..and every chord the guitar player is throwing out there. Next time someone tells you the bass is simple....simply hand it to them and let them groove a while.

[morf]

Originally Posted by WCF

[EDIT] Title a bit misleading, I mean to say "How exactly is bass as complicated as guitar"

I've seen this topic in the forum, all the time. I know we've all had butt-ins with people who underestimate the bass, but I've never really seen much of an explanation as to why the bass deserves just as much respect as the guitar, in terms of difficulty to play. Today, as my sister was playing guitar at our store, several people who could play guitar started talking to us, and when I mentioned me playing bass, the typical answer was that the bass is simple. My dad was even laughing behind the counter because he's told me before that the bass is simple.

Now, I know some of you are thinking "Well, if you have to ask...". Well, your probably right. I only started playing bass a couple months ago, so if I tried to argue with a guitarist I'd probably have no idea what I was talking about. I feel them putting down the bass as offensive to me personally, but I can never really argue for much other than "No it's not! blah blah". So bassists, what is it exactly that makes the bass complicated, and how do you respond to these comments? Seriously, I'm not exaggerating when I say everyone but one or two people I've talked to about my bass consider it to be inferior.

By the way, I'm sorry if this is on the wrong forum.

Dont argue. Pick up a bass, play something slow that requires a ton of groove, fingerstyle, and when everybody's quiet after you're done playing hand the guitarist the bass.

[Ron Plichta]

Originally Posted by morf

Dont argue. Pick up a bass, play something slow that requires a ton of groove, fingerstyle, and when everybody's quiet after you're done playing hand the guitarist the bass.

Amen, brother! Or give 'em a really tough slap line to do.

My one comeback to get "guitarists" who think like that is to get them into a jam. You'll find that all they can do is play blindingly fast licks yet have no sense of rhythm or interacting with other instruments. And when they can't jam over your groove, just grin and say "I rest my case".