So is it just me...

soong · #1 09-04-2007, 02:09 AM

Or are people noticing their solos are becoming more and more like a collection of other solos put together?

So the band and i were jamming on Voodoo Chile (a la G3) today, and i took a bass solo (soaked in wah

) and so ive noticed my solo was merely a collection of stolen licks i'd subconsciously stolen off other players...

in the space of 8 bars i managed to steal licks from:
School Days - Stanley Clarke
When i wanna Get Funky - Wooten
22 Acacia Ave - Iron Maiden
Coffee Shop - Red Hot Chili Peppers.

sigh.
This self realisation sucks.
I suck!

does anyone else have this kinda problem when they improvise? and how do i break free from this trend??

Hawaii Islander · #2 09-04-2007, 02:16 AM

I think it’s natural to draw from what is familiar. I find myself playing riffs that turn out to be from songs I've heard (some recent and some I haven't heard in years). I usually can and do find a way to make them something of my own. The way I can tell is to listen to the part I played and then to where it was derived. It’s never exactly the same.

I don't think you should worry about it.

soong · #3 09-04-2007, 02:25 AM

yeah, cos like, its kinda like im trapped and restricted to what is comfortable.

Even when im not stealing, i always manage somehow to play that same blues lick i play in the last song. sigh.

BassChuck · #4 09-04-2007, 04:42 AM

You just have to keep stealing more and more and then, in time, your 'bag of tricks' will be like no one else's and you'll be an original.

j.a.e.r.i.p · #5 09-04-2007, 04:46 AM

i think there comes a point where you realize that the people who's licks your playing stole their licks too, and so on and so forth. i think the best way to develop your own voice is to steal as much as possible and end up with something distinct. i consider myself lucky i have so many people to steal from, can you imagine if charlie parker had charlie parker to copy? i think stealing other peoples licks and sound will eventually result in a sound all your own

HaVIC5 · #6 09-04-2007, 06:53 AM

Good improvisers borrow. Great improvisers steal.

morf · #7 09-04-2007, 07:16 AM

Do people like it? Do you enjoy playing it? Then who cares?

Scottgun · #8 09-04-2007, 07:28 AM

This touches on the improv vs. composed debate. I talked with a composer who recognized the worth of improv, but gets a little miffed when people claim that it is inherently superior to composition and pointed out that improv tends to fall into types and patterns and has similar limitations as composition and can end up just as cliched as any music.

I can't find the source, but I heard that John Coltrane was asked why he stopped doing that giant-steps stuff and he replied that it just started sounding like a bunch of scales.

TwentyPast4 · #9 09-04-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Suck At Bass

yeah, cos like, its kinda like im trapped and restricted to what is comfortable.

Even when im not stealing, i always manage somehow to play that same blues lick i play in the last song. sigh.

What works for me is putting the bass down for a few days or however long it takes to get your mind going in a different direction. I tend to loose inspiration to be creative and I found the best solution for me is just fogetting about the material for a period of time and experience life in general. Maybe listen to a different style music for a little bit. Grab the bass when your in a different mood then you're normally in. Just my .02

jady · #10 09-04-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Good improvisers borrow. Great improvisers steal.

I can tell you where I have stolen every lick I play

SvartSno · #11 09-04-2007, 01:29 PM

I'm very, very new to bass guitar, but I've played drums for about 21 years.

Don't feel bad. I don't know if I have ever in my lifetime came up with something original. Pretty much every single beat or fill that I play is someting I merely copied from a record, CD, or tape that I own. Heck....I even feel kinda guilty if I get a compliment cuz I didn't actually come up with it myself!

I can only imagine that my bass playing will be the same.

JimmyM · #12 09-04-2007, 10:05 PM

Ya, everybody steals. Don't give it a second thought. However, if you caught yourself doing it, maybe this will spur you on to coming up with a few lines on your own. That's the usual process...steal some, create some, steal some more, create some more, etc.

HaVIC5 · #13 09-04-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jady

I can tell you where I have stolen every lick I play

I even stole that quote from Stravinsky (and replaced "composer" with "improviser", but whatever, its all the same thing.

)

BTW, I really am digging on your avatar, haha.

Earthday · #14 09-04-2007, 10:37 PM

Perhaps you should dissect the solos you've made. Figure out what the "stolen" licks are based around (what scale, what chord etc.) and then make your own solo based on the progression of chords and scales you used, just not the same licks. Maybe you've developed a good ear and a style, just aren't quite there with your on-the-spot note selection.

T-zone · #15 09-04-2007, 11:59 PM

It's called phrasing, man. You screw around until you come up with licks that you like, and then you store them all in the "lick vault" until it's time for you to tear it up a little bit... then you seamlessly blend those licks with your amazing knowledge of music theory and performance on the electric bass, and people are amazed. :-)

There is only so much you can do with the 12 notes you got. Only so many different patterns you can make. Eric Clapton once pointed this out and then said that there are an infinite number of possible rhythms... so when I'm stuck, I try fooling around with the rhythm and concerning myself less with the notes (of course, it has to be in key!) to come up with something new.

DocBop · #16 09-05-2007, 12:11 AM

It's a matter of if you sound like bingo machine popping up licks or they you have fit them together musically to create your own statement.

You've heard guitar player that solo and you can ID each lick they have copped why because the aren't fitting together. Like one of those windup toys that hits a wall then sudden switches direction. But if you hear a solo and recognize a lick here or there but overall sounds unique then you would just has that person was influence by <fill in the blank>. As long as your phrasing is good and the pieces fit your on the right track.

Bo_H · #17 09-05-2007, 12:15 AM

Nothing is really new, your influences simply built on their influences. Every one of those players you listed more than likely picked up on some things from their favorite players. You can hear Stanley Clark in some of the things Wooten does and so forth. I was listening to some Jethro Tull not too long ago and could've sworn I heard something that served as a possible spring board for Steve Harris' style.

So yeah, you are picking up on what your influences have played in the past and will someday have your own interpretation of those bass parts. I say knock it out and lay it down!

Perhaps a good start for you would be to change your user-name to something a little more useful instead of feeding your feelings of inadequacy. Don't put that kind of mojo on yourself.

Bo

soong · #18 09-05-2007, 05:56 AM

haha, thanks guys, oh and also, add What is Hip? by Tower of Power on that list of mine.

its fun to steal! although gets boring quick. i guess its about constantly jamming and finding new things about the music and band, seeing how your solo fits in the big picture.

solo not just to solo, but to serve the song:
as well as the licks used to serve the solo.

wow, thats quite smart of me.

FireArm · #19 09-07-2007, 03:12 AM

I did a small gig with a drummer and a saxophonist just a bit of fun really anyway the sax man needed a rest and I did a bass solo (just an improvised thing) I sounded really good, however as soon as I got off stage I realised that I'd actaully just played the 50% N.I.B black sabbath solo

and 50% of some bassline by the doors put to a slow drum beat...