The Soloing Thread

PRUNEFACE · #1 05-12-2009, 04:21 PM

Could we make this a thread discussin the basics of solo playing on bass? I think this could be a valuable tool for many of the newer Talkbass members. I'll leave it to some of our better teachers to begin

ultrabass6 · #2 05-12-2009, 04:35 PM

I always try to start off my solos with the general motif of the song. Learn the lyric line/melody on bass as it's always a good place to come back to if you get off track. Also start phrases on the third, sixth, etc to help set it apart from your typical bass line. Solos should have a solid beginning, middle, and end.

LowDown Hal · #3 05-12-2009, 04:41 PM

Don't forget that it is OK to have some silence between phrases. Think about, or listen to, Miles Davis.

J. Crawford · #4 05-12-2009, 04:41 PM

I know it may be a tad off topic, but I remember a loong time ago on some show called like Americas Next Band or something, these guys wre playing Hot Legs. The bass player took a slap solo, and the judges told him never to do it again, that no one even knew what a bass was and that it hurt their ears.

I was angry. I should have called Stu, Manring, and Wooten to go jam on the show.

mambo4 · #5 05-13-2009, 02:53 PM

Over in the double bass forums, Ed Fuqua posted a great article on Jazz soloing.

really learning a tune

Its a lesson on improvising based on a pre written tune, like most jazzers do, but could apply equally to any solo in a well written song.

probably not applicable to straight up improv stuff.

Johnius · #6 05-13-2009, 02:59 PM

Jordasch -- I saw that same episode. One of the judges commented that a bass solo could still bring the electric chair in some countries. Truly disheartening. Mostly infuriating, though.

J. Crawford · #7 05-13-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnius

Jordasch -- I saw that same episode. One of the judges commented that a bass solo could still bring the electric chair in some countries. Truly disheartening. Mostly infuriating, though.

Yes! That was the one!

I was very put down by that.. I still dont solo, but not only because of that. I just dont like soloing, and being in a three piece with a guitard and drums I have to be the civil one!

kenlacam · #8 05-13-2009, 03:16 PM

As a longtime bassist, I have learned that a lot of people (the audience) don't really care to hear us solo, unless it is a situation where everyone in the band gets a turn. Unless it is jazz music, soloing is really unnecessary, and in a lot of cases, unwanted....

Michael Case · #9 05-13-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenlacam

As a longtime bassist, I have learned that a lot of people (the audience) don't really care to hear us solo, unless it is a situation where everyone in the band gets a turn. Unless it is jazz music, soloing is really unnecessary, and in a lot of cases, unwanted....

I don't know about that, if done well I think a bass solo can work. I think the problem is that too many bassists rely on slap and pop or other gimmicky crap instead of music. If a bass plays a good melodic line, why wouldn't people care?

JustOpenYourMind · #10 05-13-2009, 03:25 PM

Here's the video:

http://video.google.fr/videosearch?q...gs&hl=fr&emb=0

The judges may have been hard, but imo, that solo did't really add anything to the song, it removed a lot from the song actually.

I think that it doesn't add anything melodic to the song at all.

The big challenge when doing a solo is doing something that is melodic, sounds good and really add to the song, (that part the non musician-audience likes) and having it technically challenging (that part the musicians love it). If you are too much on one side or the other, imo the solo sucks, which is the case here.

That solo is neither very technical neither does it bring the song anywhere

Michael Case · #11 05-13-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustOpenYourMind

Here's the video:

http://video.google.fr/videosearch?q...gs&hl=fr&emb=0

The judges may have been hard, but imo, that solo did't really add anything to the song, it removed a lot from the song actually.

I think that it doesn't add anything melodic to the song at all.

I just watched that video and that's exactly the crap I was talking about in my last post. Slap and pop is not good for soloing IMHO.

Michael Case · #12 05-13-2009, 03:34 PM

Back on topic, it's hard to make the switch from bass player to soloist. At least for me it is, you have to get out of the old I'm here to stay out of the way and support mindset and take the lead. Avoiding roots is a really good idea, especially on the strong beats (that's what I'm working on) helps liven up a solo. Also try to start phrases on beats other than 1, we bassists are always on the one when we solo we should stretch out.

JTE · #13 05-13-2009, 03:53 PM

To solo well, you need to start with good musical ideas. Listen to great soloists, which generally excludes bassists. Listen to Miles Davis, Joe Pass, Ella Fitzgerald, Wayne Shorter, Oscar Peterson, Duane Allman, Larry Carlton, Charlie Parker, Carlos Santana, Jeff Beck, Cannonball Adderly, etc.

Don't play bass, play music on the bass. So, in order to break up old bad habits, do this. Put your bass into the case and lock it up. Record the progression over which you're going to solo, and SING a solo. Record the solo you sing. Then take your bass out and learn exactly what you sang. Now that'll be the music in you, not the chops you've acquired on bass.

Also spend time learning the melodies to different songs. Singing the melody along with your bass line helps you own the music, and learning melodies is the quickest and best way to learn to play and think melodies.

BTW, not having seen the video in question, but did the bassist on the show play the solo that Phil Chen played on Rod Stewart's orginal recording of "Hot Legs"? It's a short solo, that has small bit of slap in it. It's about two bars long.

jte

PRUNEFACE · #14 05-13-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustOpenYourMind

Here's the video:

http://video.google.fr/videosearch?q...gs&hl=fr&emb=0

The judges may have been hard, but imo, that solo did't really add anything to the song, it removed a lot from the song actually.

I think that it doesn't add anything melodic to the song at all.

The big challenge when doing a solo is doing something that is melodic, sounds good and really add to the song, (that part the non musician-audience likes) and having it technically challenging (that part the musicians love it). If you are too much on one side or the other, imo the solo sucks, which is the case here.

That solo is neither very technical neither does it bring the song anywhere

That was rather weak. I don't understand why that was even in there. Not exactly a "groovin'" or funky song... Not sure why he chose to slap.

Michael Case · #15 05-13-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

To solo well, you need to start with good musical ideas. Listen to great soloists, which generally excludes bassists. Listen to Miles Davis, Joe Pass, Ella Fitzgerald, Wayne Shorter, Oscar Peterson, Duane Allman, Larry Carlton, Charlie Parker, Carlos Santana, Jeff Beck, Cannonball Adderly, etc.

At what point will bassists be good soloists? I'm not picking a fight I just wonder when we'll agree that there are good soloists on bass. I think Jeff Berlin, Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Tony Grey are all good examples of good bass soloists.

PRUNEFACE · #16 05-13-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Case

At what point will bassists be good soloists? I'm not picking a fight I just wonder when we'll agree that there are good soloists on bass. I think Jeff Berlin, Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Tony Grey are all good examples of good bass soloists.

Exactly. I started this thread for me (and other) "intermediate" and beginner bassists to learn what it is all about.

JTE · #17 05-13-2009, 05:20 PM

There are good soloist who play bass. Not familiar with Tony Grey, but Stanely and Jeff are two great ones. And Berlin himself for decades has been telling people to listen ot horn players to learn to solo in jazz, rather than bassits, or blues-based guitarists. I left out a few of my favorite guitar players because they're NOT great soloists in the way that will help someone else learn to be a great soloist.

The point is that if you want to learn how to solo, don't think of "bass solo", think of "solo". The instrument is just the tool that is used to express the music. Start with the music. Otherwise it runs the very strong risk of becoming an athletic event, like '80s shred metal guitar.

jte

Michael Case · #18 05-13-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

There are good soloist who play bass. Not familiar with Tony Grey, but Stanely and Jeff are two great ones. And Berlin himself for decades has been telling people to listen ot horn players to learn to solo in jazz, rather than bassits, or blues-based guitarists. I left out a few of my favorite guitar players because they're NOT great soloists in the way that will help someone else learn to be a great soloist.

The point is that if you want to learn how to solo, don't think of "bass solo", think of "solo". The instrument is just the tool that is used to express the music. Start with the music. Otherwise it runs the very strong risk of becoming an athletic event, like '80s shred metal guitar.

jte

Good point indeed, but I'd like to personally say that I play the bass because I like the bass. I do transcribe Miles solos AND solos of some of the bassists I mentioned earlier.

**john turner** · #19 05-13-2009, 06:17 PM

i didn't think that hotlegs solo was -that- bad, but yeah, wasn't exactly the song for that kind of thing - sorta inappropriate, folks are expecting what they expect with a famous cover tune.

you either do it exactly like the original, and get all the stylistic cues spot on, or else you marilyn manson it, and do it so different and weird that folks either love it or hate it.

**john turner** · #20 05-13-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

The point is that if you want to learn how to solo, don't think of "bass solo", think of "solo". The instrument is just the tool that is used to express the music.

i agree with that sentiment, and even take it one step further - think "melody". think "song". think "statement". doesn't have to be a chops buster - in fact, some of the best solos on any instrument are not necessarily very complicated to perform. simple melodies that confer the exact feel and emotion that is intended by the song

just like any other communication medium, solos can be eloquent without being verbose.