Song changes key and u don't know it; what do u do?

homecooken · #1 08-02-2009, 06:39 PM

Let say someone in the band throws out a song to play and it's chords are pretty basic. Such as, E A and B but the chorus or bridge does an entirely different key/chords. Is there a "safe" place or key to play in if you don't know where to play. For example, you are invited on stage to jam and you need to come up with something on the spot.

UncleBalsamic · #2 08-02-2009, 07:07 PM

You're never more than a semitone away from a 'right' note.

seanm · #3 08-02-2009, 07:52 PM

The simple answer is no. Hopefully at a jam the leader will tell you the tricky changes.

Dogbertday · #4 08-02-2009, 07:57 PM

Nope... but what you CAN do is it keep your phrasing good and keep the groove until you either find the key or it goes back to the verse... If you can see the guitar player's hand that could help too

onlyclave · #5 08-03-2009, 12:06 AM

I think D is the saddest of all minor keys.

JohnnyNacho · #6 08-03-2009, 12:17 AM

^Do I detect a spinal tap reference, or am I just delusional from lack of sleep?

bui · #7 08-03-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyNacho

^Do I detect a spinal tap reference, or am I just delusional from lack of sleep?

[Nigel is playing a soft piece on the piano]
Marty DiBergi: It's very pretty.
Nigel Tufnel: Yeah, I've been fooling around with it for a few months.
Marty DiBergi: It's a bit of a departure from what you normally play.
Nigel Tufnel: It's part of a trilogy, a musical trilogy I'm working on in D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find. People weep instantly when they hear it, and I don't know why.
Marty DiBergi: It's very nice.
Nigel Tufnel: You know, just simple lines intertwining, you know, very much like - I'm really influenced by Mozart and Bach, and it's sort of in between those, really. It's like a Mach piece, really. It's sort of...
Marty DiBergi: What do you call this?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump".

M.Wrenn · #8 08-03-2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bui

[Nigel is playing a soft piece on the piano]
Marty DiBergi: It's very pretty.
Nigel Tufnel: Yeah, I've been fooling around with it for a few months.
Marty DiBergi: It's a bit of a departure from what you normally play.
Nigel Tufnel: It's part of a trilogy, a musical trilogy I'm working on in D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find. People weep instantly when they hear it, and I don't know why.
Marty DiBergi: It's very nice.
Nigel Tufnel: You know, just simple lines intertwining, you know, very much like - I'm really influenced by Mozart and Bach, and it's sort of in between those, really. It's like a Mach piece, really. It's sort of...
Marty DiBergi: What do you call this?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump".

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000

go spinal tap!!! lol

M.Wrenn · #9 08-03-2009, 12:40 AM

but to be actually on topic theres no safe key, if it changes, ghost a groove and try to figure it out, but most jam leaders will tell you about changes in advance and regular "jams" (not written songs) generally dont change keys and if they do it'll be blatantly signaled

hbarcat · #10 08-03-2009, 12:45 AM

The thing about key changes is they are almost always easy to spot the instant they happen. And there are a few typical ways they change - usually not random. The most common is to go up a whole step and it's obvious when it does. If you hear that interval just remember to play everything you would normally but a whole step higher.

Learn to recognize the interval that the song shifts on the key change and you will be able to play by transposing what you already know by that same interval.

gary mitchell · #11 08-03-2009, 01:13 PM

FIND THE VOLUME KNOB ON YOUR BASS TURN IT OFF PLAY AIR BASS UNTIL THEY COME BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CHORD. THEN WHEN THE GIGS OVER JUST SAY DID YOU HEAR THE VOLUME DROP OUT OF MY BASS THAT SUCK GLAD IT CAME BACK, AND GO ON AS NOTHING EVER HAPPEN.

PJSShearer · #12 08-04-2009, 04:13 AM

Look at the Guitar or keyboard player's left hand, or if you can't tell, yell:

Oi! ******e what's the ******* chord?

Bruce Lindfield · #13 08-04-2009, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homecooken

Let say someone in the band throws out a song to play and it's chords are pretty basic. Such as, E A and B but the chorus or bridge does an entirely different key/chords. Is there a "safe" place or key to play in if you don't know where to play. For example, you are invited on stage to jam and you need to come up with something on the spot.

This is why you need to do ear training!

So as has been mentioned - a lot of tunes will go to related keys or move in predictable ways. But there's no substitute for having a good ear and being able to hear a chord and know what the root is and then the quality...?

You can practice this on the net - there are many ear training programmes which will play you random stuff and ask you to say what's happening...etc.

The more you do it - the easier it gets!

OmegaBass16 · #14 08-04-2009, 06:06 AM

Bruce Lindfield, do you have a ear training program and web site in mind ? I'm very interested in improving "having a good ear and being able to hear a chord and know what the root is and then the quality...?" Thanks in advance !!

PJSShearer · #15 08-04-2009, 06:21 AM

Seriously, if you get lost - ask. I used to make a living doing that :-).

This problem comes up all the time - you can't know everything and not all tunes are "Buskers" as we say in the UK (Fakeable) and so we all need a help occasionally - no matter how well tuned your ear is.

I've spent many an evening when Subbing with my eyes glued to the Guitar Player's left hand when things get a little "hary", or watching the shapes the Keyboard Player's left hand is making (or even eyeballing the chart he's reading from :-)).

It goes both ways, I've also stood behind guitar players and yelled the chords for the middle eights of many a tune into their shell likes :-) - I've even recited the words to "My Way" to a Singer before now.... !!

roceci · #16 08-04-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gary mitchell

FIND THE VOLUME KNOB ON YOUR BASS TURN IT OFF PLAY AIR BASS UNTIL THEY COME BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CHORD. THEN WHEN THE GIGS OVER JUST SAY DID YOU HEAR THE VOLUME DROP OUT OF MY BASS THAT SUCK GLAD IT CAME BACK, AND GO ON AS NOTHING EVER HAPPEN.

hahaha +100000000000

Bruce Lindfield · #17 08-04-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaBass16

Bruce Lindfield, do you have a ear training program and web site in mind ? I'm very interested in improving "having a good ear and being able to hear a chord and know what the root is and then the quality...?" Thanks in advance !!

If you google : 'ear training online' - you will get loads of sites!

I have used Aebersold and other software tools that cost money!

OmegaBass16 · #18 08-04-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

If you google : 'ear training online' - you will get loads of sites!

I have used Aebersold and other software tools that cost money!

Thanks Bruce L. for that info.

gary mitchell · #19 08-04-2009, 06:17 PM

Iam always up there with the guitar player,and since I was a guitar player before I played bass I just watch him. And it does pay to have some good ear training.

Tehrin Cole · #20 08-04-2009, 06:36 PM

Watching the guitarist is just fine. Having someone call out the changes to you,is even better! However,the most important thing that you can do is,LISTEN! After a couple of passes,you'll eventually get it!

Another thing you can do is learn to transpose. In other words,practice playing every song that you learn in all 12 keys.

Lastly,you can also do what we do in the jazz world: "When in doubt, lay out" !