Song Writing Advice (complete newbie to song writing)

[stewievslois]

Hey guys,

At the moment the band I'm in play covers, we'd quite like to have ago at writing our own songs (this may not be straight away, but it's something we're considering). We consist of a rhythm guitarist, lead guitarist and a bassist. Both guitarists sing occasionally - so to begin with they would be singing.

I've been nominated to write vocals, or at least have a go it. Can anyone offer any advice as a bassist writing vocals?

If I'm honest I'm not even sure if I'm better working out the bass line / melody or vocals first

Any advice or thoughts anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

stewievslois

[Rick Auvil]

The melody, or the bass line can imply a harmonic structure, but it seems to me that you'll need an instrument to work out a chord progression too, like a guitar or a keyboard. There are many approaches, but most of the songwriters I know work at the harmony and melody lines at the same time and the bass line seems to happen.

I started a wiki for some of the kids at my school who are interested in songwriting. It's not the greatest, but there are a few ideas there which might help you. Here's the url:

http://songwritingtools.wikispaces.com/

[Zegie]

This works for me:

1. Imagine a theme or key phrase like “Too many fish in the Sea” – “I
want you back” – “Bassists always get the girls”.
2. Turn on a recorder.
3. Strum or play a few chords.
4. La La along with the chords and formulate a melody line.
5. Incorporate your key phrase along the way.
6. Add additional lyrics.
7. Turn off recorder.
8. Leave for 24 hours.
9. Review and improve.
10. Iterate this process until you are happy with the result.



“Bassists always get the girls, drummers get them on their feet,
Hit those drums, pick that Bass,
Feel the groove man - hit that beat”

Copyright Zegie 2009 lol!


I always work out a bass line last.

Hope this helps -good luck.

Z.

[kraigo]

I'm a failing songwriter, but I'll keep trying 'til I die. To me the lyrics are the hardest part. A keyboard is a melody generating machine. Lifting chord progressions from other songs is fair game - most songs use one of a small handful of common chord progressions anyway. The best thing you can do is learn a lot of cover songs and analyze them.

I'm not advocating plagiarism, I'm saying that part of the learning process is imitation.

KO

[MalcolmAmos]

Just finished giving my standard bare bones structure for a song on another forum. You might pick up something there.
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17742

That deals with a lead sheet for the song, i.e. treble clef, chord progression and lyrics. Yes you will need the bass line. Since you already have the chord progression pick a bass riff that works for the song and use it through out the song - for the first draft. With the second draft your bass line can be fleshed out and include some runs, etc.

JonR ends one of his posts with this:

"In fact another piece of advice for Deflect (if he's not already working this way) would be to set up a chord loop and just improvise over it (recording everything), until good melodic ideas come up. Maybe only 10% (or less) will be usable, but it's still a productive (and enjoyable) way to compose.
The trick then is to not remain too tied to the initial chord loop sequence. The melodic stuff you come up with might suggest other chords - so go with it."

Yes, let your second and third draft flesh out your song, but, get all the necessary structure stuff done in the first draft.

One little bit of theory that may help to keep in the back of your mind is:
The melody line and the chords used under the melody should share some of the same notes. If they do you harmonize - sound good. Ask your self why do we need to change chords? Well the melody has moved on to notes not found in the old chord so your old chord no longer harmonizes the melody - time to find a chord that has some of the NEW melody notes in it's makeup. As I have the chord progression before I start working with the melody I rely upon the chord's tonic pentatonic scale for my melody notes. I get three chord tones and two safe passing notes to build my melodic phrase that I'll use over that chord. Seems to do OK for me.

Composing melody is a lot easier on the keyboard. Nothing fancy just an inexpensive keyboard is all you need. This one would be fine.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/c...roeder_big.gif

Good luck.

[randyripoff]

Originally Posted by Bus

The melody, or the bass line can imply a harmonic structure, but it seems to me that you'll need an instrument to work out a chord progression too, like a guitar or a keyboard. There are many approaches, but most of the songwriters I know work at the harmony and melody lines at the same time and the bass line seems to happen.

When I first started writing songs, I used the bass because that's what I knew how to play. However, I quickly realized that the guitar was a much better instrument in that it just gives you so many more options tonally. The bass line will write itself, once you decide on what the feel of the song will be.

I strongly suggest a guitar. Plinking about on one will give you ideas.

[Zegie]

Originally Posted by randyripoff

I strongly suggest a guitar. Plinking about on one will give you ideas.

100% agree - go for it!

Z.

[phatphillss]

There are many ways to writing a song. The guitar and keys will give any rythum life.So dont worry about the rythum it will come. Just start writing use the bass to color chords you like write the chords or root note down.to give the guitarist a idea of where to start with a rythum.A good singer can make any words on paper a song. We got a song out of a instruction manual.You can find lyrics everywhere.

im also the bassist in my band and i dont sing but i write half of the lyrics for the band it is a bit hard to write on the bass but can be done.

If you need help writing pm me and ill help you. there are thousands of ways to write a song.
Poems....start a poem book.
Creative writing start doing that, take a word and write about it.
EXAMPLE>
TELEVISION------10 minutes of object writing

As i turn on the thought machine of our life.It swallows me hole.Its my guide to emptyness.Center of distraction.Colors of vibrance and wispers of motion.Has no bering or hold.Realization of whats normal and hip.Change every channel with just one flip.destruction,terror,and evening new. Pop culture followers and a mindless grip.Thoughts and voices repeated to control.Deturmination desire and thoughs who oppose.The fasions of the year and the morning soap.Robs you of time as you obsserve more ?????


Now if you look at that right there it could be a song.

log all your creative writing in a folder and save it for later use.WHY
So when your writing a song and you come to a word you creativly wrote about already you can use that info for that line in the song.

I fell what works is get a idea like television consumes the mind.OK
Then write about that just like the example.

Then take the words in what you wrote about tv.
EXAMPLE> machine ,Pop culture ,destruction,terror,channel

And you creativly write about it for 10 minutes.

So by the time your done with all this writing you have somany words and opsions to choose from. also when your bandmate dont like what you wrote you got a folder of words and lines to put it there.

HOPE that helped happy new year keep writin and pm if you need help.

What kinda music you play?