Standard notation - Ledger notes below first position

[MalcolmAmos]

Up to this point I've not worried with the few notes that go below the 6th string nut or first ledger line below the cleft, i.e. below E. But as I rely more on standard notation it's time I dealt with the lower ledger lines. Specifically, for the few times this happens I'm not wanting to move up an octave - just for this song and play the whole piece an octave higher so I can grab two or three lower notes. There must be a better solution for the few notes that go below E. Help.

Thanks

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Up to this point I've not worried with the few notes that go below the 6th string nut or first ledger line below the cleft, i.e. below E. But as I rely more on standard notation it's time I dealt with the lower ledger lines. Specifically, for the few times this happens I'm not wanting to move up an octave - just for this song and play the whole piece an octave higher so I can grab two or three lower notes. There must be a better solution for the few notes that go below E. Help.

Thanks

what about a hipshot detuner for notes below the E on the bass clef....cleft is a hole on kirk douglas' chin

[MalcolmAmos]

LOL- got it - no T.

[MalcolmAmos]

Went surfing on the Hipshot, not really what I want to do, reminds me of my banjo days of detuning by hand - down a half turn, for the needed note, then up a half turn to recover. I left those songs alone.

But, with what I've been able to find - with a 4 string low E is low E and that is it. Right?

Which brings up the question. Is that what the 5 string B is for? The low ledger stuff?

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Went surfing on the Hipshot, not really what I want to do, reminds me of my banjo days of detuning by hand - down a half turn, for the needed note, then up a half turn to recover. I left those songs alone.

But, with what I've been able to find - with a 4 string low E is low E and that is it. Right?

Which brings up the question. Is that what the 5 string B is for? The low ledger stuff?

i'm not sure i understand.....a hipshot works off a flip of the lever and can switch on the fly...depends on your needs....if you are playing a lot of stuff below E a five makes sense,if its just the odd tune a hipshot is probably best.....check out michael manring for some cool stuff using detuners

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Went surfing on the Hipshot, not really what I want to do

hip shot makes regular tuners *and* De-tuners...maybe you got confused...and excellent bridges as well...

Which brings up the question. Is that what the 5 string B is for? The low ledger stuff?

you would certainly use if for that, so yes.

basically if you have to go lower, you're either dropping to a lower string or detuning...

I've even seen upright basses with "C" extension on them for those low notes too.

I believe it is common to just play up an octave in many situations, however.

[Elrend]

If it's written out for 4-string bass in standard tuning, you shouldn't get those notes at all.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Elrend

If it's written out for 4-string bass in standard tuning, you shouldn't get those notes at all.

Understand, however, I've had trouble finding bass clef on Country music and have just purchased http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_137jig9303_b 80 songs with bass clef shown - thinking I was on my way. Well a good percent of those 80 have lower than E bass notes. Not a lot in each song, but, enough to where it would matter.

I really do not want to get into the mental gymnastics of playing in a higher octave than position one - if I do not have to. That will drastically affect my learning curve.

How would a detuner be used? From what I've seen I flip a switch and detuning one string, do I wait until I need those low notes to throw the switch - and then flip it back again when the two or three low notes have been taken care of? Playing from standard notation with a 4 string surely is not as handicapped as it now seems.

I'm in shock, need some cookies and milk. Hoping for some good news........

[Elrend]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Understand, however, just purchased http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_137jig9303_b 80 songs with bass clef shown and a good percent have lower than E bass notes. Not a lot in each song, but, enough to where it would matter.

I really do not want to get into the mental gymnastics of playing in a higher octave than position one - if I do not have to.

Do I have another choice?

Oh! You're reading off a piano staff?

The bass on a piano staff is at concert pitch, which means your 4-string should be able to cover it without alternate tunings or anything like that.

[LowDown Hal]

Are you looking at a book specifically written for Bass or is it a piano book?
IF it is a piano book and you are looking at the BASS, or left hand, part everything needs to be transposed an octave.

The OPEN E on the 4th string of a standard tuned Bass Guitar is an E1.
Remember Bass Guitar parts are written to appear an octave higher

[MalcolmAmos]

This may clear up everything.

On the sheet music I have -- the D note below the ledger line E where do I grab it on my fretboard?

[Elrend]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

This may clear up everything.

On the sheet music I have -- the D note below the ledger line E where do I grab it on my fretboard?

If it's a piano score, 5th fret, A-string.

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

This may clear up everything.

On the sheet music I have -- the D note below the ledger line E where do I grab it on my fretboard?

you dont without retuning. That is unless it is the D that would be a concert pitch and not transposed for bass. The D you would read on a piano would be the open D.

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes - the book I just bought says; Piano - Vocal - Guitar. Well that means I have to play an octave higher than position one.

OK IF, big IF, if that is my only choice I'll have to start over. This begs the question. Where do you purchase your standard notation sheet music to use with your bass?

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

This may clear up everything.

On the sheet music I have -- the D note below the ledger line E where do I grab it on my fretboard?

when buying sheet music the you want stuff written specifically for bass......piano books have piano left hand on the bass clef and they generally do not resemble anything even close to the bass line.....

if you want bass lines you have to look for the books with "note for note",or "actual recorded bass" to get them.....old back issues of geetar rags and bp should available at the used book in your area,and song books for bass are out there.....bass white pages too.....the tab forum is a great source and despite the name,lots of notation is available there

[MalcolmAmos]

Thanks guys. Getting close to midnight I'm going to go sleep on this, needless to say I'm just a little shook up.

See you all tomorrow.

[Eminentbass]

I've got the Hipshot on my bass. It's useful for when you encounter an arrangement with a few low D's or Eb's(the hipshot can be fine tuned to go down to C but I've never tried it). In those cases I just flip it for the one or two bars where needed. It also requires some mental shifts though, especially when reading and in songs where the extended range occurs a lot, because all the notes shift upwards by two frets which can be tricky when reading intervallically.

A lot of the cello etudes I use to practise with go as low as C in which case I play those phrases an octave up. I'd recommend getting used to the calculations involved if you're not retuning because you never know when you might get handed an arrangement with those notes written.

[MalcolmAmos]

OK I've slept on it. Looks like finding standard notation bass clef for Country music is going to be hit or miss. It was bad before and finding it specifically written for bass seems out of the question.

Today I'm going to experiment with re-writing the phrases that go low, as Eminentbass touched on, hoping that can salvage something. If that proves unsatisfactory back to fake chord and or lead sheet and composing the bass line I think best.
In the mean time I've got to re-learn position one, or find a 5 string. I asked my bass playing partner about a 5 string when I bought my first bass and he said; "A five string just has lower notes." wish I had realized what he was talking about. Still in the dumps.

Thanks for all the information appreciate your help.

Malcolm