Steve Bailey on Jeff Berlin

[fretlesssurfer]

Hello fellow bottomfeeders,

I received an email from Jeff Berlin this morning telling me about his “adventures” here ultimately leading to him being “perma-banned”. Those of you who know my history with jeff will not be surprised to know that I came here immediately and had a look/interesting read. Also those of you aware of Jeff’s and my history would probably assume that I would be giggling over it….. Well……
I read John Turner's well written explanation of what went down, and it honestly makes sense. (I have met John over the years and he seems like the kind of guy who is honest and "straight up" ) According to the rules he should be banned. That still does not sit well with me.
Very few people in the world have given their various perspectives as much “deliberate thought” as has Jeff. Very, very few….. Even fewer have had the extensive professional/musical experience that Jeff has. Jeff Berlin is an Icon in the bass world, a “diplomat” from a perceived hostile BassWorld. I know it sounds crazy, but I think he should be granted Diplomatic Immunity, just like any diplomat at the UN. Yes, his poop is the same color as ours, and like Bruce Dickenson; he puts his pants on one leg at a time.. like you and me. BUT… what he has to say is important, if for no other reason that to just get us THINKING about where we are on things.
My well documented debates with Jeff, as well as private conversations, mostly in bars, over the years has not changed my mind on even one issue that we debated, and I am sure it is the same for him. BUT, what they did accomplish was making me really think through where I was on things and if nothing else further solidify, and even expand, my thinking.
Jeff likes disagreeing with people… he likes arguing… he likes fighting… he definitely likes being “right”; possibly more than the vast majority of us. He is also a GREAT teacher of that which he knows. AND, people like to hear what he has to say.. granted many may look at it like NASCAR….. just waiting for the crash! Jeff has issues, heck we all have issues.. but I think he being him, and being challenged, is good for him!!
So… my suggestion, not that I have a right to make one….. is create a section
where anything goes. Make it “enter at your own risk”.. make it unavailable to minors. Whatever….. just do NOT squash a VOICE.
I believe Charles Mingus, Jaco, Gene Simmons and other greats would also be perma-banned from here. I am sure of it.
Create a space of “professional diplomatic immunity”… and let it rip!!!! It could end up being a very popular destination.
Steve Bailey

[engedi1]

Thanks for the great comments Steve, I agree with you 100%, but alas, no one asked for my input (as is usually the case!) I have always been huge admirer of yours (and of Jeff's) and appreciate your great attitude! Thanks for hanging at TB! Maybe you could give a few pointers in JB's abscense, I would love to learn from some of the contradictory opinions that you may have. You are totally right, JB did get me thinking more than I have in years about much on the bass that I have only just assumed. Always profitable to turn the brain on!

[kesslari]

Hey Steve,
Thanks for weighing in. I like the concept of "diplomatic immunity" for Jeff - LOL. I had a nice argument with him here, and got an apology from him (which puts me in a small group of human beings, I think) when I demonstrated the fact that, despite my having attending Victor's camp, that I could play coherently over a ii-V-I in Db.
While you're on, thanks for the lessons you've taught me as well - I learned a huge amount from our week in Tennessee with Victor and co.
May the ocean waves and sound waves always carry you with all the grace you can muster.
J

[fleabee]

I really dig that idea-Make it “enter at your own risk”.. make it unavailable to minors.

[mikeyswood]

I enjoy this point of view greatly. If there were no one willing to ruffle feathers and encourage thought then we would all still be British.

[john turner]

Originally Posted by fretlesssurfer

Hello fellow bottomfeeders,

I received an email from Jeff Berlin this morning telling me about his “adventures” here ultimately leading to him being “perma-banned”. Those of you who know my history with jeff will not be surprised to know that I came here immediately and had a look/interesting read. Also those of you aware of Jeff’s and my history would probably assume that I would be giggling over it….. Well……
I read John Turner's well written explanation of what went down, and it honestly makes sense. (I have met John over the years and he seems like the kind of guy who is honest and "straight up" ) According to the rules he should be banned. That still does not sit well with me.
Very few people in the world have given their various perspectives as much “deliberate thought” as has Jeff. Very, very few….. Even fewer have had the extensive professional/musical experience that Jeff has. Jeff Berlin is an Icon in the bass world, a “diplomat” from a perceived hostile BassWorld. I know it sounds crazy, but I think he should be granted Diplomatic Immunity, just like any diplomat at the UN. Yes, his poop is the same color as ours, and like Bruce Dickenson; he puts his pants on one leg at a time.. like you and me. BUT… what he has to say is important, if for no other reason that to just get us THINKING about where we are on things.
My well documented debates with Jeff, as well as private conversations, mostly in bars, over the years has not changed my mind on even one issue that we debated, and I am sure it is the same for him. BUT, what they did accomplish was making me really think through where I was on things and if nothing else further solidify, and even expand, my thinking.
Jeff likes disagreeing with people… he likes arguing… he likes fighting… he definitely likes being “right”; possibly more than the vast majority of us. He is also a GREAT teacher of that which he knows. AND, people like to hear what he has to say.. granted many may look at it like NASCAR….. just waiting for the crash! Jeff has issues, heck we all have issues.. but I think he being him, and being challenged, is good for him!!
So… my suggestion, not that I have a right to make one….. is create a section
where anything goes. Make it “enter at your own risk”.. make it unavailable to minors. Whatever….. just do NOT squash a VOICE.
I believe Charles Mingus, Jaco, Gene Simmons and other greats would also be perma-banned from here. I am sure of it.
Create a space of “professional diplomatic immunity”… and let it rip!!!! It could end up being a very popular destination.
Steve Bailey

i greatly respect your opinion steve, have always been a huge fan of your playing, and grown greatly through the help of your instructional material.

unfortunately, i cannot agree with your point of view here. the reasons for jeff's most recent exodus from talkbass (and not his first) i have spelled out here :

why was jeff berlin banned?

for ease of reference, i'll repost some of his most recent participation here :

Originally Posted by JeffBerlin

The mod******* who bloc*** me can go f*** him****! I went over all my comments before I was blo**** from these pages, because I was curious what I might have done to get blo**** in the first place. I couldn’t find a thing!

After I was blo**** from these pages, a few other guys commented about the unfair manner that they also were trea*** by some mod******* over here. Some of these mod******* already have a rep with some talk**** members for being jer**s. If the rul** are for everyone, there are still an awful lot of people here who get away with mur***. Their comments enter into the realm of rude and disruptive and the mod******* do nothing about it. Why? Because they agree with what is being said! Some of the mo******* would be surprised to know that a lot of people on talk** think the same thing about them as I do. So, again, to some of the m********* on these pages, for your blatant b***s*** preferential treatment of some talk**** memb*** over others, you can s*** m* d***

Now, back to the music!

i don't care who anyone is, that kind of crap is -never- acceptable -anywhere- in civilized company. if you think, or have been told, that his banning was the result of him sharing his thoughts on education or music or anything else of that nature, you've been lied to. he was banned from talkbass because of numerous incidents of crap like the above, and despite his crying innocent, the evidence is all still preserved, unfortunately. it's embarassing, to be honest, especially for some of us who are fans, to have had to clean it up. that's not what we're here for.

as i said in my earlier explanation, it's a real shame that someone of jeff's stature and potential contributions on the instrument had such a hard time abiding by the 11 simple, golden-rule-based rules of our site when 10's of thousands of "lesser" bassists are able to do so easily, without even really trying.