struggling with modes

[dreadheadbass]

hello everyone i've recently taken up teaching myself music theory and i'm struggling with modes

ok i get how the order works i think (2nd note of the major scale is the dorian mode 3rd is the phrygian mode etc)
ok thats great n all but everything i've found is in the key of C does this mean that the notes never change ( dorian mode is always played in D aeolian is always in A)

or does it mean i can move it round for instance if i'm playing in the key of A can i use a B dorian mode or if i'm playing in D# do i use a F# dorian mode

or am i wrong on boths cases?

[steverosati]

"does it mean i can move it round for instance if i'm playing in the key of A can i use a B dorian mode?"... yes, Dorian is a scale based of the second degree of the parent scale. so it will have the same #'s and b's as its parent.

[dreadheadbass]

Originally Posted by steverosati

does it mean i can move it round for instance if i'm playing in the key of A can i use a B dorian mode?... yes

thankyou very much its been confusing the hell out of me (i'm really struggling with muso theory i've done everything by ear up till now)

so if i'm playing in the key of F it would be

I: F ionian
II: G dorian
III: A phrygian
IV: A# lydian
V: C mixolydian
VI: D aeolian

[Messiah25]

Originally Posted by dreadheadbass

thankyou very much its been confusing the hell out of me (i'm really struggling with muso theory i've done everything by ear up till now)

so if i'm playing in the key of F it would be

I: F ionian
II: G dorian
III: A phrygian
IV: A# lydian
V: C mixolydian
VI: D aeolian

You've got it
Back to woodshed

Check this out, It might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode

[dreadheadbass]

Originally Posted by Messiah25

You've got it
Back to woodshed

woo i got something right for once now i just need to figure out how it works in songs etc and i'm cooking with gas

[ga_edwards]

I'm no expert on modes, but I think key is a confusing term to use. I prefer to call it a 'tonal centre'. So if you're playing something based around 'A', you can change the mode to change the the colour and mood of the tune, although the modes you can use depend on the underlying chords.

I don't know the theory completely, but say you have a 3 chord patter, there's a couple of modes to choose from that will fit with those chords, let's say A dorian and A mixolydian for arguements sake to illustrate they are both in the same tonal centre, but different notes. Likewise another chord pattern but still with the same tonal centre will force you to use another mode. The basic idea being they all have the same root note, but variations in the scale change the mood, and the chord progression tell you which modes are available.

[steverosati]

I: F ionian Vii E locrian
II: G dorian
III: A phrygian
IV: Bb lydian
V: C mixolydian
VI: D aeolian
still need to follow the key of the parent scale in this case it would be F major 1 flat Bb your modes here are diatonic.
but you are on the right track.

[DocBop]

Modes have chords and tonal colors associated with them. What you are talking about is more like treating modes as fingering patterns. Which is a use for them, but not what they are meant for.

Major modes: Ionian, Lydian
Minor modes: Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian
Dominant: Mixolydian
Half-diminished: Locrian

That is most basic view. Key to modes is playing them against chords to hear the tonal colors they offer. Then you can choose which one you want for what sound. Learning modes has to be more about playing and listening than learns names in order and fingering patterns.

Modes could be viewed a the Swiss Army Knife of music there are many ways to use them from improv to composition.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by dreadheadbass

thankyou very much its been confusing the hell out of me (i'm really struggling with muso theory i've done everything by ear up till now)

so if i'm playing in the key of F it would be

I: F ionian
II: G dorian
III: A phrygian
IV: A# lydian
V: C mixolydian
VI: D aeolian

No, not A# lydian, it has to be Bb. Every letter name gets used once, otherwise key signatures make no sense. This holds true for every diatonic mode, and every non-synthetic scale - you'll have some form of A B C D E F G. To give you an idea why Bb lydian is preferable, here is how you would spell both options.

A# lydian: A# B# C## D## E# F# G## A#
Bb lydian: Bb C D E F G A Bb

Make sense?

[greenboy]

Oh, NO!!!! - those messy enharmonics! ; }

[ryco]

Ionian = Major scale = R M2 M3 P4 P5 M6 M7
Dorian = minor scale Major sixth = R M2 m3 P4 P5 M6 m7
Phrygian = minor scale with a minor second = R m2 m3 P4 P5 m6 m7
Lydian = Major scale with an Augmented fourth = R M2 M3 A4 P5 M6 M7
Mixolydian = Major (actually called Dominant) scale with a minor seventh = R M2 M3 P4 P5 M6 m7
Aeolian = Natural minor scale = R M2 m3 P4 P5 m6 m7
Locrian = minor scale with a diminished fifth = R m2 m3 P4 d5 m6 m7

[dreadheadbass]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Modes have chords and tonal colors associated with them. What you are talking about is more like treating modes as fingering patterns. Which is a use for them, but not what they are meant for.

Major modes: Ionian, Lydian
Minor modes: Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian
Dominant: Mixolydian
Half-diminished: Locrian

That is most basic view. Key to modes is playing them against chords to hear the tonal colors they offer. Then you can choose which one you want for what sound. Learning modes has to be more about playing and listening than learns names in order and fingering patterns.

Modes could be viewed a the Swiss Army Knife of music there are many ways to use them from improv to composition.

correct i view most of the scales as a shape on the freboard if nothing else there helping keep my fingers in check and building dexterity i'm still going through the process of learning how to put which mode with which chord
at the moment i just play my melodies and riffs by ear but i'd like to know what it is i'm actually doing in terms of scales and muso jargen so i can improv a little better