Sucking for 2+ years.

BullHorn · #1 07-05-2008, 03:51 PM

I have a guitarist friend who's been playing for a similar amount of time as me but he progressed much faster.

Sure, I can play nifty slap licks and some fast fingerpicking and my hearing got better, allowing me to figure out most basslines fast, but I feel like I missed out on many basic skills that make a good bassist.

My problems: I was told I often don't groove, which made me sad, but I took it in a positive way and decided I want to get better. Today I tried to groove with an experienced musician; he was playing a random swung rhythm on one cymbal and asked me to improvise anything (Which is another thing I suck at because I never learned proper theory, nor scales, etc. We'll get to that ._.) but it appeared I was often choosing a wrong rhythm to compliment his rhythm (Probably not wrong, just not 100% right

). I can't think of a better way to explain it, I hope someone understood what I mean.
Another example is when I have to just play square 8th or 16th notes, my friend said I'm not grooving because I don't emphasize on the proper location (1 & 2 & 3 & 4 -- I might be emphasizing on the 1 and the 3, while I'm only supposed to be emphasizing on the 1, just for example).

Now, my second problem is that I focused on figuring stuff by TABs and by hearing, and never focused on learning notes, scales, modes, etc. I find it hard to learn now because it's always hard going back to basics. I need some good TOTAL BEGINNER advice regarding this topic. I know where most of my notes are located on the neck but I don't really know which note sounds good with which chord/key.

I need your help guys. I'm going back to the base tomorrow (I'm serving in the Israeli Defense Force), so I'll be looking at this thread with my cellphone.

sedan_dad · #2 07-05-2008, 03:53 PM

Oh!
This isn't what I was expecting the post to be about.

Dennis098 · #3 07-05-2008, 03:56 PM

http://www.garciamusic.com/educator/...ve.groove.html
internalize the rhythm.
i feel like whenever i'm grooving well... you just know. it feels so awesome and right haha. if you don't feel locked in, chances are you aren't.
i would advise playing with a metronome, and recordings, possibly recording yourself to see if you did well (webcam?)
getting into funk has been helping me with my time-feel
move your body. it helps a lot.

DudeistMonk · #4 07-05-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

getting into funk has been helping me with my time-feel

+1 to funk

Check out studybass.com its got a lot of great resources for beginning to understand theory and the role of bass, and once you understand that it should be easier to groove.

chaunceytoben · #5 07-05-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullHorn

I have a guitarist friend who's been playing for a similar amount of time as me but he progressed much faster.

Sure, I can play nifty slap licks and some fast fingerpicking and my hearing got better, allowing me to figure out most basslines fast, but I feel like I missed out on many basic skills that make a good bassist.

My problems: I was told I often don't groove, which made me sad, but I took it in a positive way and decided I want to get better. Today I tried to groove with an experienced musician; he was playing a random swung rhythm on one cymbal and asked me to improvise anything (Which is another thing I suck at because I never learned proper theory, nor scales, etc. We'll get to that ._.) but it appeared I was often choosing a wrong rhythm to compliment his rhythm (Probably not wrong, just not 100% right

). I can't think of a better way to explain it, I hope someone understood what I mean.
Another example is when I have to just play square 8th or 16th notes, my friend said I'm not grooving because I don't emphasize on the proper location (1 & 2 & 3 & 4 -- I might be emphasizing on the 1 and the 3, while I'm only supposed to be emphasizing on the 1, just for example).

Now, my second problem is that I focused on figuring stuff by TABs and by hearing, and never focused on learning notes, scales, modes, etc. I find it hard to learn now because it's always hard going back to basics. I need some good TOTAL BEGINNER advice regarding this topic. I know where most of my notes are located on the neck but I don't really know which note sounds good with which chord/key.

I need your help guys. I'm going back to the base tomorrow (I'm serving in the Israeli Defense Force), so I'll be looking at this thread with my cellphone.

to learn to improvise, youll probably need to learn your scales.

btw, my brothers in Israel right now

MCBTunes · #6 07-05-2008, 04:28 PM

Get a program called ScaleTool Lite and start learning a scale. I started with Major Pentatonic(G to be precise) as it is fairly basic and my skills improved immediately. After you are done with the pentatonic you can learn the Ionian as it just adds 4 and 7 to the pentatonic. There are all sorts of scales to learn and this program basically just shows you the notes/shapes so you can learn the scales more quickly and easily. Another nice thing about it is you dont need to know how to read music.

joel kelsey · #7 07-05-2008, 04:39 PM

1. Don't worry about how fast you are progressing. It is not a race. You are getting better, and you will continue to get better. Some people are "late bloomers".

2. Try to think about your basslines one note at a time. A lot of times the simplest basslines groove the hardest. Listen to the players you are playing with, and try to hear every note before you play it. Less is more. I would recommend checking out James Jamerson.

3. Reading music is easy once you get the hang of it. Theory will come too. The best way to learn that stuff is with a teacher.

I hope this helps. Everybody's journey is different, but these techniques have helped and continue to help me a lot. What I do know is, comparing yourself to others is a dead end. Be yourself, study recordings, and show up on time. That will help you get better as a musician and as a person. Be patient. You will get there.

Good luck

Joel

martyman5000 · #8 07-05-2008, 04:39 PM

I never slap (preferance)
I've found that Tab is a waste of time (it might be incorrect)
Melody and learning to keep time are most important.

BullHorn · #9 07-05-2008, 05:05 PM

Regarding scales - I think I'm learning them in the wrong way. I've tried the 5 positions pentatonic minor. I've learned the 1st position very well and can play it in every key, but if I move to a different position, I usually get lost. I guess it's a matter of practice, practice and practice?

BullHorn · #10 07-05-2008, 09:30 PM

I'll look into the Improve Your Groove site.

What other tips do you guys have for me?

jsingles · #11 07-05-2008, 09:41 PM

sounds like you already know what you need to do... you listed a bunch of things that you would benefit alot from. you didnt "miss out" you just havent done much of that stuff "YET"

jsingles · #12 07-05-2008, 09:43 PM

OH one other thing... not knowing that stuff only 2 years in doesnt make you "suck"

jayarroz · #13 07-05-2008, 09:49 PM

well one day someone showed me basic gospel music, I started to play bass lines to the free church channels on tv that had all the people in gowns dancing and singing together. I'm not kidding man this really helped learn how to groove, they sing move to one side then clap. So then I started to do this when I played shows, I played a lot of funk at the time so I would pick the best dancer in the audience and move with her. Usually its a left booty shake two in the middle and then one to the right.

good luck man! with soloing, yes learn scales. And learn phrasing, breath like your a horn player and have an idea in the beginning and keep with that original phrase while creating a question answer kind of sound. If you get a chance jump on a drum kit, I think every bass player should be able to play the drums.

BullHorn · #14 07-05-2008, 09:49 PM

Oh, well. Going to the train now.

See you guys next week. I'm going to miss my bass. ._.

BullHorn · #15 07-07-2008, 02:30 AM

Posting from my cellphone here...

Give me more advice guys. What can i do to get better while at the base, for example? I don't have a bass here.

Spikeh · #16 07-07-2008, 02:53 AM

Four things (of many) that improved my playing massively:

1) Practice every day. Even if it's for 10 minutes. If you get the time, practice for an hour - 4 x 15 min exercises. There are hundreds if not thousands of exercises on the net, let alone in books. Good ones to start with are chromatics (01234 on each string, ascending then decending), muddling the chromatics around (1342, 2143 etc), acending chromatics (1234 on first string, 2345 on second, 3456 on third etc), scales (start with pentatonics around the kneck, minor, major, myxolidian etc...) and arpegios. If you're practicing slap and you're sloppy, just practice slapping one string at a time, for the same amount of time each - mute the note and start again... back to basics, cut it right down.

A lot of people suggest you do it in front of the TV as it's boring. But I disagree - if you want to get really good, you need to concentrate on each note, each finger position and each attack... while doing it in front of a TV etc is better than nothing, it's not going to improve you anywhere near as good as dedicated learning would.

Also, practice playing both soft, and hard. Dynamics play a bit part in music, more than a lot of casual musicians think.

2) Get a teacher. They can sort out any problems and point you in the right direction for you to get your desired results. One of the things my teacher pointed out was that my second finger was stronger than my first finger, and I've become a lot better from knowing that one fact... I have lessons once a week (when I'm home, though I've been away for 3 months at the moment

), but even once a month helps.

3) Look at your technique critically. Whether it be slap, fingering or picking, look at both your hands and arms, find out from other players how you should be playing (I posted a few videos on here a while back asking for pointers). Honestly, TB is a great resource for learning, even if you don't take everything on board.

Fundamental points about technique: Keep a straight arm, don't strain your hand or wrist at all... playing bass should be natural. All four fretting fingers should be on the fretboard (or around it) at any one time. Your picking hand should again, be straight and free of any pain or strain. Adjust your strap accordingly, and don't be afraid if it looks silly when it's up on your chin! :P

4) Play to a metronome or a drum machine. If you want to practice with a drummer and there's noone about, buy a little metronome or splash out on a nice roland drum machine or something. I'm in a lucky position where I have thousands of drum tracks in my recording studio, but not everyone has this! Make sure you're "in the pocket" (oooo err :P) before you start going mental with fills and fancy riffs...

If any of that helps, my work here is done :P

Spikeh · #17 07-07-2008, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullHorn

Posting from my cellphone here...

Give me more advice guys. What can i do to get better while at the base, for example? I don't have a bass here.

Heh, for starters, before all that junk above, don't spell "bass", "base" :P

BullHorn · #18 07-07-2008, 03:42 AM

No, i meant base, lol. A military base.

Spikeh · #19 07-07-2008, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullHorn

No, i meant base, lol. A military base.

Ah yeah, I re-read it... burn on me! :P

Did you read the hopefully useful post I wrote though? :P

tranceFusion · #20 07-07-2008, 09:18 AM

get a teacher.. i have been playing for 10 years (on and off during that time) and sucking.. you don't want to be like me..

I am on my third teacher and this one is great! I think you need to find a teacher who is both on the ball, and fits for you. The teacher I have now is extremely organized and we spend time each lesson covering theory, reading music, technique, and applying all of it together. You don't want to spend your whole time going through method books and you don't want to spend the whole time just learning songs..

You want to kind of manage your teacher as well.. you should use the stuff he/she tells you as a jumping off point.. go home, validate it, build on it, and come back next week with a bunch of questions for him/her..