Sure the crowd, but the band?

[Kickin'Fruit]

Yeah I hear all the time bassists don't get noticed by the crowd, but how do you feel when your band doesn't even acknowlege you? I can play the wrong notes or drop out completely and my bandmates don't even seem to notice or care. Except when I turn up louder than them and consistently pump the wrong thing.

It's because I'm playing the root note and the two guitars are already doing that anyway? Do I need to speak up more about not recognizing what's being played? It's hard for me to pick out the notes of the song even after they tell me because they seem to get annoyed or assume they don't have to tell me much when I ask. I say what key is that in, what are the notes, what is the progression. And in response I get "it's like this" and he plays the riff without telling me specifics. Am I asking too much? I feel like if I stood there the whole practice and didn't play a thing then they still would think that was a good practice. Also it really doesn't help leaving my equipment there everyday meaning I can't really practice at home.

[Chili]

it seems like your in a band where they just done care about the bass...at all, do you always just play the root note to the guitar? and have u been in the band a while? mabe theyve just got that used to you they dont need to say anything, or mabe there not really serious about the band, and mabe dont no what bein in key is or where notes are etc

[Michael Henson]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Yeah I hear all the time bassists don't get noticed by the crowd, but how do you feel when your band doesn't even acknowlege you? I can play the wrong notes or drop out completely and my bandmates don't even seem to notice or care. Except when I turn up louder than them and consistently pump the wrong thing.

It's because I'm playing the root note and the two guitars are already doing that anyway? Do I need to speak up more about not recognizing what's being played? It's hard for me to pick out the notes of the song even after they tell me because they seem to get annoyed or assume they don't have to tell me much when I ask. I say what key is that in, what are the notes, what is the progression. And in response I get "it's like this" and he plays the riff without telling me specifics. Am I asking too much? I feel like if I stood there the whole practice and didn't play a thing then they still would think that was a good practice. Also it really doesn't help leaving my equipment there everyday meaning I can't really practice at home.

I play in a church situation where I used to go through the same exact thing you're describing. The music leader always has too much going on to give me the time of day let alone write a bass line or chord chart down for me. The way to make this work is to work harder...You need to start taking your gear home and practicing. Do you guys have recordings of the songs you are playing? If so, play along with them as much as possible. If not, you need to talk to one of the guys that knows how the songs go after (or before) a practice and ask him to write a quick bassline down for you to use as reference. If this doesn't work you just need to suck it up and apply yourself and make it work. The best way to improve this is to make your ear better. Do this by listening to the style of music your band plays as much as you can. Absorb everything you can and play along with that stuff as much as possible. I've noticed a difference in my playing if I take a week and listen to nothing but CD's of Jaco, Wooten, Miller, Hamm, Manring, Clarke, and any other bassist I can find and download. The next time I pick up my bass and begin to jam or play along with the group grooves and fills I didn't know I knew start coming out of my fingers. I absorbed what I was hearing and learned from it without even realizing.

Whatever you do, don't give up. Keep working and it'll eventually come together. Oh yeah, welcome to the world of bands.

[Ben B]

Can you tell us more about the band? Are you playing covers or originals?

What are your goals with the band? Money? Just fun?

[Kickin'Fruit]

I've only been playing with the band since last Wednesday I think but it feels like forever!! I feel like I should have the songs down to a T. So far we have played 2 cover songs and 2 maybe 3 originals. They have old recordings of the songs but have since changed it. They told me the notes when I ask but like I said seem a little annoyed. Thanks for pointing out that the singer DOES have a lot to worry about and can't really help me all the time so I'll try to back off in that respect.

And I do just play the root note on their originals, I figure I should figure that out first before I try to do anything outside of that and inside key. My rig is a 4 space rack full and a 210 cab so I can't really lug it home all the time. I'm thinking I should just get the 115 extension cab I've wanted and use a mini amp for it to practice?

The band wants to just have fun, but they want to record and do lots of gigs too.

[steveb98]

Aren't you the one who just had the thread about not being sure if you are ready for a band. Relax, slow down, and be glad they are content with you playing roots. Make the changes and lock into the bass drum and they will be happy. Sound like a bunch of young guy and I would bet the person any of them are hear is themselves. Typical of new players all they know is if everyone ends at the same time it must of been good.

I would say they aren't helping in practice more for two reasons. One they don't know the answers themselves. They probably mainly play by ear and don't know the scales, and terminology. To them you are probably holding up practice in other words their chance to crank up and jam.

I would say try to talk to the guitar players and feel out which one is willing to work with you away from the practice. Then get together with or without amps and work on the tunes. You will find your teaching each other a lot.

[idoru]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

My rig is a 4 space rack full and a 210 cab so I can't really lug it home all the time.

I use a 6 space rack, Trace Elliot 1248H (103 lbs), a pedal board and two basses. I leave no man behind, ever - and I'm insured. I think you just need to 'man up' a little and get used to lugging your gear everywhere - good practice for when you can't park any closer than 2 or 3 blocks to a venue!

[Ben B]

Yes, speak up. If they were covers, I would say learn it from CD or a book. But since it's originals I think it's reasonable for them to tell you the key and progression and maybe even write it down.

As Michael suggested, you may have to do it before or after practice because they they may feel too busy to be bothered. I can't say if they'll do it, but I think it's a reasonable request.

Ben

[Vic Winters]

You go to RIT? A couple of my good friends go there. It's a pretty decent place except for the complete lack of girls/social scene and the overabundance of uber nerds.

On topic:

When they say "it's like this" it usually means they don't know what notes they are playing. Make the changes you feel you need to make. If you don't want to play roots the whole time, throw in some fills. I do that in my one band all the time. Neither guitarist minds, in fact they enjoy it. If they shun your creativity tell them to go screw. Also you don't have to bring your whole rig home to practice, just your bass. You can still hear what notes you're playing without an amp. Plus it gets you in tune with the natural sound of your bass. That is unless you play with a bunch of effects, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.

[ihateusernames]

They might not be able to hear you in the first place. As a guitar player I never appreciated bass until I learned 1) how to play it and 2) how to eq it in relation to guitars, drums and vocals.

For 6 years playing guitar in bars I NEVER heard the bass on stage because none of us understood how to eq our amps and set up our cabs and monitors. For all I knew he wasn't even plugged in, just the cool guy beside me that liked to yell in my ear about how much fun he was having?

I'd start with working together to make sure your stage mix is suitable and available to all members.

[Kickin'Fruit]

In response to all of you: Thanks, it always makes me less depressed when I get support from TB. I don't use any effects, I'd like to but I definitly need to focus on my playing first.

I have no problem lugging my equipment around, in fact I almost enjoy it for the exercise. But, I don't have a car so my friends pick me up and that would just be a pain.

I do believe that one guitarist is willing to help me out he usually lets me know what's going on if the other guys are too busy with themselves and genuinely seems like a nice guy. I should get in contact with him outside of practice.

I also know that it might be the case that they don't exactly know what's going on either as far as theory goes, I've learned all my stuff from here on TB, and I did notice today in practice the one guitarist asked "what note is this?" pointing to the 12th fret on the E string...

I have a Squire P-Bass here and it's not as hooked up as my Fender Jazz but I'm sure it does the trick if I listen hard enough, or I can just plug into the AUX on my stereo. So I'll do that instead of spending more money.

So you really think it would be more appropriate for me to ask OUTSIDE of practice what's going on and maybe they would be a little more willing to help? Thanks guys.

And yeah I'm the guy who posted about just getting into this band. I am having a hard time slowing down because I feel like there is so much 'catching up' I need to do. I'm very serious about Bass and maybe I'm just too serious for the current situation I'm in.

[idoru]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

I have no problem lugging my equipment around, in fact I almost enjoy it for the exercise. But, I don't have a car so my friends pick me up and that would just be a pain.

<snip't>

And yeah I'm the guy who posted about just getting into this band. I am having a hard time slowing down because I feel like there is so much 'catching up' I need to do. I'm very serious about Bass and maybe I'm just too serious for the current situation I'm in.

Ah, that makes more sense now - no car is a hassle, you're fortunate that you have good friends!

A good habit to get into is to establish your self-worth as a musician ASAP. You don't just play the low notes; you're the essential bridge between the rhythm of the drums and the melody of the guitars (and other instruments). What's more, with the right PA and the right choice of notes, people _feel_ what you play, not just hear. Listen to the difference between say, Cream and the White Stripes in a live recording... no contest!

People ask me why I play bass, I usually reply that guitarists are a dime-a-dozen and I wanted to be different. Plus I love the sound of good bass, the option of keeping it simple and supportive, or pushing the envelope and making it crazy.

Man, be serious about bass - it'll pay off in the long run! Take/learn what you can from the current situation, and if doesn't improve it'll be easy enough to move on

[steamthief]

I think you're selling your abilities way short! I know this because I often do the same thing and beat myself up over not being perfect on every note.

I've only really been playing regularly for a year, and the guitarist, who's also a best friend that I've known for twenty years, gets really frustrated when I don't immediately pick up a bassline to a song he knows. When I ask him to shout out the progression, instead of just telling me, he will walk over and obnoxiously jab at the notes on my fretboard with his index finger. What a ween.

steveb98 gives excellent advice to lock in with the drummer. Many times after playing a song I feel I screwed up a fill or a run, the drummer says, "no, no, that sounded tight!" IMHO, the bass is the glue between the rhythm and the melody, so if you lock in with the drums you're halfway there!

And seriously, the guitar player didn't know what note was on the 12th fret? Don't sell yourself short, bro, make them notice what you bring to the table! Since your group does covers, I'd suggest you learn a song that you want to perform, and when you have it down pat, have the drummer do his thing, play it start-to-finish, and tell the axemen to learn it. Demonstrate your abilities, learning potential and initiative, and they will notice you, and hopefully give some props for your efforts.

Good luck and always rock on!

[Michael Henson]

I think that all the advice given so far is right on. One thing that's jumping out to me is that these guys are good at playing by ear but don't necessarily know what they are playing at any given time. This is pretty common, onfortunately. If I were in this situation I would do a couple things differently. First, since you sound like you know your fretboard and a little about the music aspect I would try to hook up with the nicer of the two guitarists and try to hammer out some rough chord charts. I kind of view the bassists as the silent leader of the group. We don't have to have all the attention and be in the spotlight all the time, we bring a more objective viewpoint to the table. If you can let him know this and make the point that having this stuff written down with help avoid confusion in the future for any number of reasons. (e.g. one of the guitarists or you can't make it to the show and you have to have someone fill in, etc.) Second, I would spend some major time improving my playing to get it to the point where I know without a doubt I can hold my own with anything they throw at me. Finally, if these guys aren't willing to work with you and improve themselves in the process it's not worth your time. There are groups getting together all of the time, you won't have any trouble finding a few like-minded musicians that want to make a go of it.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by idoru

A good habit to get into is to establish your self-worth as a musician ASAP. You don't just play the low notes; you're the essential bridge between the rhythm of the drums and the melody of the guitars (and other instruments). What's more, with the right PA and the right choice of notes, people _feel_ what you play, not just hear.

This is the role I want to fufill and I think the band needs especially when the drummer asks what the chord progression is. I feel like it's my job to communicate between the annoyingly high freq. guitars and what I see to be my comrade in the band, the drums. I don't want their arrogance pissing the drummer off like it does me. Am I right in that assumption? But they definitely don't even see me as being able to do that or that that is my role.

Originally Posted by steamthief

When I ask him to shout out the progression, instead of just telling me, he will walk over and obnoxiously jab at the notes on my fretboard with his index finger. What a ween.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE SINGER DOES TO ME! I ask him what the notes are and maybe if he think he's told me before he comes over almost pissed and jabs at the spots on the fretboard. I find it really degrading and makes me feel like some guy they just picked up off the street and handed a bass to. If he would just TELL me what notes they are, I can find them and I'LL decide how I want to play it, fingering, octave etc. It's like having someone else dress you, buttoning your shirt etc.

Also if it's a simple song but I don't know what they are playing and I ask if they could either tell me or write it down, I get "okay I'll get a big black marker and write D-G on the wall. cause that's all you have to play..."

[Pruitt]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Also if it's a simple song but I don't know what they are playing and I ask if they could either tell me or write it down, I get "okay I'll get a big black marker and write D-G on the wall. cause that's all you have to play..."

If anyone ever said anything like that to me, even if I was a beginner and had never played before, I'd put my bass back in its case, unplug my amp, and walk out without ever turning back.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by Pruitt

If anyone ever said anything like that to me, even if I was a beginner and had never played before, I'd put my bass back in its case, unplug my amp, and walk out without ever turning back.

Well if that was the general consensus of the band sure that would be no problem... well until it came time for me to try and lug my equipment all the way home without a ride. Waiting for a taxi might make it a bit awkward.

Anyway, like I said the guitarist who seems more concerned with helping me even then said "well you don't ONLY have to play that, just play something in key and it'll sound great" I'm thinking this kid is more of a good guy, and one of the reasons I'm sticking around. I know those notes aren't all I'm going to play but I feel like that's all I should play until I get it right... then I can worry about jazzing it up or throwing in some steps.

[Matthew Bryson]

I've read a lot of your threads about this new band that you've joined up with. I can relate to a lot of what you are going through. I too just joined a new band last week and I'm also pretty new to the world of bass playing, having played less than five years. I've played with lots of people, and I've been in two other bands, but this latest one is really the first time that things are have gone really well. Based on my experiences, I have 3 pieces of advice:
1) Relax. Don't forget that it's supposed to be fun. Do your best and have fun doing it.
2) Do not invent a reason to quit this band. Hang in there. Even if the guitarist never knows what he's playing you are still learning a lot about playing with people. This is the best way to learn. Unless you have another band lined up, stick with this one and learn your lessons.
3) Get recordings. Even if they are bad recordings of a rough practice. Get some sort of recording that you can work with at home. That is the most valuable thing that you can have for learning new material.

[iplaybassguitar]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Yeah I hear all the time bassists don't get noticed by the crowd, but how do you feel when your band doesn't even acknowlege you? I can play the wrong notes or drop out completely and my bandmates don't even seem to notice or care. Except when I turn up louder than them and consistently pump the wrong thing.

It's because I'm playing the root note and the two guitars are already doing that anyway? Do I need to speak up more about not recognizing what's being played? It's hard for me to pick out the notes of the song even after they tell me because they seem to get annoyed or assume they don't have to tell me much when I ask. I say what key is that in, what are the notes, what is the progression. And in response I get "it's like this" and he plays the riff without telling me specifics. Am I asking too much? I feel like if I stood there the whole practice and didn't play a thing then they still would think that was a good practice. Also it really doesn't help leaving my equipment there everyday meaning I can't really practice at home.

first off...bring your stuff home...and practice. all the time.
maybe your too low in the mix for them to notice your goofing up...or maybe they dont have good enough ears to hear it...or maybe they dont care...what kind of musicians are these people, i mean how old are they, what kind of music, how long have they been playing, and do they seem to know what theyre doing?

you also might wanna try taking a bit of controll in the band, i dont mean to say you should go in there and tell everyone what to do, but if a few of your posts the topic has been: they told me this, what do i do? maybe you could try telling them some things, or bring them a song you wanna play, theyre not gonna kick you out for wanting to progress, in fact they might be more likely to kick you out if you seem like you dont want to.

[Pierced Soul]

As a vocalist in a matal band who's just started playing bass as well I can udnerstand where you're coming from with being unoticed.

we've had several bassists and pretty much never had any idea what they've been playing or whetehr they've been playing the correct riff until we got them into the studio to record them . I've personally never paid any attention to the bass as I previously have had no musical theory or knowledge so I couldnt really decipher whether it's in time or out of time etc.

I know our lead guitarist would just tell new bassists to play 'whatever they felt they needed to' which is unhelpful, but that was more about him not really wanting to limit what they played (as long as it was in the right scale etc) or tell them how to play bass

I will disagree with others here regarding your band members attitudes. if they want to treat you like a moron, talk down to you and jab at your frets then it doenst sound like a great band for you to be in. One thing that needs to happen is respect.

admitedly guitarists dont always know what they're playing or what note they're playing but thats no excuse to treat you like ****. at the end of the day you're trying to help them out by playing with them and giving them some bottom end.