Switching from guitar to bass.. theory differences?

[officialjlox]

Hey everyone,

I've recently decided to make the switch from a guitarist of 10+ years to the low end. I actually wanted to be a bassist when I first made my choice to learn an instrument, but my guitar teacher wanted to teach me guitar basics first, and it kind of stuck.

Now I'm looking for a good starter bass (looking at the squier VM jazz) and possibly getting my first gig as a bassist, but before I jump into the deep end right away, I want to get some idea of basic theory differences between guitar in bass.

I was a lead guitarist by nature previously, so I am familiar with scale theory, and used it often. I know my keys (although I may need to brush up a bit lol) and how to determine them. My main concern is playing moving bass lines under chord changes. This may be a dumb question for bassists, but cut me some slack...

Say we're playing in the key of Emi, and I'm using the natural minor of the Gmaj scale. If the chord progression goes from say E to G to A to C, do I need to adjust my scale to match the chord? or can I harmonize my line within the key of Emi and its variations?

Thanks and I look forward to being re-born as a bassist!

[bassandbeyond]

Music is music, regardless of the instrument, so you will use the same scales and chord tones on bass as you have been using on guitar. You'll just be playing one note at a time!

In your E minor example, assuming that the chords are all diatonic to the key (Emin GMaj Amin CMaj), then yes you could use E minor scale tones with all of those chords. But if any of those chords are different qualities, then of course the appropriate scale would change. Make sure that you know the chord qualities, not just the root movement, and then outline those chord tones with your bass lines. Good luck!

[Bootzilla]

You don't have to change key if the chords are diatonic. The best way to support a song is to just "forget" about keys and focus on the chords. Use the chord notes as target notes and then use chromatic or key notes as approach notes.

Edit: Also if in doubt try to play less and make the notes count. You don't have to play every chord note to define it so just hit the root on the one and a chord note of your choice on the two. If you have that down start approaching them with other notes (don't overthink just feel it and let your hart play).

[MalcolmAmos]

Came over to bass less than a year ago, it's a piece of cake once you understand your fretboard and where the notes are.

Once that is established then some time spent with how to build a bass line, yep, we play chord tones one note at a time.

Root nothing is always safe.
Root - 5 is safe 99% of the time. Only problem is if you are playing over a diminished (b5) chord.
The 3 or b3 is the next logical note to add to the mix.
Then the 7 or b7 enters the picture.
If you have a slash chord we play the slash.
If there is a really fancy jazz chord I forget about any extensions beyond sevenths and concentrate on is it major R-3-5-3, minor R-b3-5-b3, or diminished R-b3-b5-bb7)

And then if you have problems picking out the chord changes revert to the tonic pentatonic (R-2-3-5-6) over the whole thing.

Get your fretboard down then get five or six basic riffs into muscle memory and play along to the backing tracks that are now on the Internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4x0u...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmsyY...eature=related
Minor pentatonic R-b3-4-5-b7

Same thing you did jamming rhythm guitar - assume a I IV V I progression and instead of strumming the chords we play the chord tones one note at a time. Letting the rhythm take you, i.e. R-3-5-3 may turn into R-R-3-3-5-5-6-5. You don't have to start every riff on the R or root, but, it's a good idea right at first till you get comfortable.

Your 6 string will flow into your bass - as mentioned earlier music is music you just have to adapt what you already know to the new instrument.

For specific help I'd recommend www.studybass.com

Pick, thumb, fingers? Whatever works for you. The bass sustains notes much more than you are used to. So we have to learn how to mute the strings not in use. www.studybass.com has a section on muting. I'm using a combination of thumb and palm mute and when I'm using fingers an index with middle mute works for me. Just something you will have to work out.

Have fun.

[dalconthenovice]

you'll find that in the key of eminor the notes E G A C are all located in that key
so in theory you could just harmonize
but as a bass player i believe its more important to know how to groove in the chord changes than the key of the piece

depending on the tempo and feel of the song you could walk the E chord to G to A to C

learning hwo to walk with the bass is very essential to playing bass

[officialjlox]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

you'll find that in the key of eminor the notes E G A C are all located in that key
so in theory you could just harmonize
but as a bass player i believe its more important to know how to groove in the chord changes than the key of the piece

depending on the tempo and feel of the song you could walk the E chord to G to A to C

learning hwo to walk with the bass is very essential to playing bass

The walking thing is something I need some clarification on... is it a specific run? or is it simply "walking" through the notes of the chord?

[chanson]

Originally Posted by officialjlox

The walking thing is something I need some clarification on... is it a specific run? or is it simply "walking" through the notes of the chord?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassline#Walking_bass

[MalcolmAmos]

Something else you might want to file away in the back of your mind. There was a string on Gospel music and using the turn-a-round, i.e. the viidim, iii, vi, ii, V, I --- just recently on this site. This was a WOW for me.

We are in C and have finished the G chord. It's time to go back to the C chord (from the G chord) the turn-a-round starts with the viidim (note) which would be the B note, the iii would be the E note, the vi would be the A note, the ii would be the D note, the V would be the G note and the I would be the C note.

Where is the B, E, A, D, G and C notes? Look one fret back from your C root note (4th string 8th fret). Just walk up the 7th fret to the D note then grab the G and C in their normal place. --- Is that neat or what?

http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/basschart.htm

Yep check out the G - 4th string 3rd fret it's turn-a-round starts on the 2nd fret. Same pattern - the turn-a-round pattern plays out this same way all over the fretboard.

You are going to love the bass' fretboard.


.

[WalterBush]

There's no difference. Theory is theory. Apply what you know about melody as a lead guitarist to writing lines that create the foundation of a song, and you'll do fine. Don't get stuck on the root, in other words.

To more spefically answer your question, both approaches to bass lines work; which one I would use depends entirely on the song. I tend to use the key of the song rather than switching modes with each chord, but sometimes the vocals, keyboards, etc dictate differently. Use your ears.

Also, not everyone plays chords one note at a time, though it depends a lot on the bass' tone and what the band is doing. At my church, hitting a few chords or arppegiating them instead of playing eigth notes on the root sounds great from time to time. It doesn't work out so well in my cover band.

[Roadman]

Just a note about the Squier VM. I have one and t's a great bass, but it is heavy (maple). Be sure to try one out before buying. It's a big switch from guitar.

Welcome to the low life.

[M0ses]

Chords > Scales

[officialjlox]

Thanks for the input guys- I need to brush up on my chord theory a bit but I'm really enjoying the tips. The old crappy bass that I borrowed from a friend and I'm using now is significantly heavier than the other ones I've tried in the stores, so I don't think the weight will be too much of an issue. I'm looking at the Squier VM (have a deal in the works that I'm crossing my fingers on) but if not I've heard a lot of good things about the SX's and I saw a real nice maple board sunburst one (would've preferred black w/ maple but it doesnt look like its available in a jazz surprisingly

[officialjlox]

Another n00b question- does the choice of chord vs scale line differ from genre to genre? or is it simply the bassists choice? I'll be playing some metal/progressive/heavy rock in the gig I'm doing..

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by officialjlox

Another n00b question- does the choice of chord vs scale line differ from genre to genre? or is it simply the bassists choice? I'll be playing some metal/progressive/heavy rock in the gig I'm doing..

I'll answer it this way. We play notes from the chords being used in the song - unless we are going to play a lead break solo of the song's tune. Then we play melody notes from the song's scale. If you are new as you say forget about the lead break leave that to others. So play notes of the chord found in the song. Lay down a good steady beat......

...... Most of the time what you do is left up to you. Helps to know the chord progression and follow that as best you can. The actual bass line riff you chose to use is kinda left up to you, i.e. A basic Root nothing is always safe. R-5 is safe 99% of the time. Get yourself five or six basic riffs (R-3-5-3, R-3-5-b7, R-b3-5-8) and change to a new root as the music moves to a new chord.

Does the chord progression differ from genre to genre? Yes, however you can assume a I IV V I chord progression until proven wrong. That ole I IV V I progression has been used in thousands of songs.

I bet the band has some fake chord sheet music on what they play that will give you the chord changes. Get some and start practicing.
http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/ww...ra/177728.html

Ask specific questions, someone will help.

Good luck.

[Minotauros]

I'm almost 2 years into learning guitar, and 1 month into learning bass. I intend to keep up with both of them. The fact that bass lines are 1 note at a time as Malcolm said, is actually helping me with guitar. It's kind of a way of learning the fretboard note by note. I think they complement each other. Once I am fully down with chord triads (and 7ths), it should be easier for me to make up a bass line over those chords.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

...... Most of the time what you do is left up to you. Helps to know the chord progression and follow that as best you can. The actual bass line riff you chose to use is kinda left up to you, i.e. A basic Root nothing is always safe. R-5 is safe 99% of the time. Get yourself five or six basic riffs (R-3-5-3, R-3-5-b7, R-b3-5-8) and change to a new root as the music moves to a new chord.

Here's something I don't think I ever asked...

What kind of rhythm is generally used when following a chord? Let's say the song is 4/4. Would you do something like (and I'm just making this up)...

|---------|
|---------|
|---------|
|-0-0-0-0-|
...1 2 3 4

or

|---------|
|---------|
|---------|
|-0-/-0-/-| (/ = rest)
...1....2

or if it's 8th notes...

|------------------|
|------------------|
|------------------|
|-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-|
...1 & 2...& 3 & 4 &

or

|------------------|
|------------------|
|------------------|
|-0---0---0---0---|
...1 & 2 &..3 & 4 &

Or some such thing (not to overthink the examples).

[Minotauros]

Well, I might have found the answer here Undeniable rules of rhythm for bass??

Though I'm not sure I know how you can accent a beat on bass since it's a single note. For example, the 6/8 strum pattern of House of the Rising Sun goes like this 1 2 3 4 5 6. If I play all 6 beats, how do I accent if at all.

[MalcolmAmos]

Not going to be of help here. I'm also new to being the beat master. I have for years (playing rhythm guitar) followed the lead set by the vocalist or other lead instrument. Feeling my job was to augment and make the lead instrument sound good, because of that I'm having to learn my new role as the beat master. I'm still just going with the flow.......

Some one else will jump on this and we both can learn something.

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by officialjlox

I've recently decided to make the switch from a guitarist of 10+ years to the low end.

ESHHH, 10 years as a guitarist!! Man, you may be too far gone for help at this point.....

Might want to just stay with guitar, the damage is already done....

-PE

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Some one else will jump on this and we both can learn something.

I hope so.

So far I've found that some bass lines do keep a regular beat. These Boots Are Made For Walking, for example. Hey, it's a fun song (think Full Metal Jacket). I love the descending bass line in the intro and bridge...

G|------------------------------------------------|
D|------------------------------------------------|
A|-8-8-7-7-6-6-5-5-4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-|
E|------------------------------------------------|

Then pretty much a steady rhythm on open E with changes to open A and G (on E string). It's fun.

On other songs I find myself playing the roots and rhythm of the rhythm guitar chords (or piano with Instant Karma). Maybe that's not so bad if it sounds good.