Taking out my frustrations - theory into practice.

[TheInsane]

I just felt I needed to take out my frustrations for abit here. I have been playing bass since 1997 or 1998 with periods of more or less practice. I have been in the same band for 8 years now we do have a minor league record deal and get good reviews. We play some kind of melodic death metal not the most simple stuff but not the most complex either. While I have struggeled at times I always seem to manage to learn the songs quite easily. However I cant seem to write music or come up with alot of good bass lines (unless the deviation from the guitars are minimal).

I seriously dont know what Im doing wrong. I have some theory from before and recently started relearning it and even though I understand it theoretically I cant seem to put it into practice while playing. Its really getting to me. And I think I get the whole thing with scales, modes and chords etc and how they relate to eachother.

Granted its not just to follow the chord progressions since in metal its mosty riff based but I have tried to practice to recognice the scales used and what fits in where in a song but I just cant seem to make it happen or make it sound any good.

A good example is how I just now tried to connect all the dots listening to Mastodons "the last baron" track (the riff around 03:58) but I just cant figure out what scale its based on. When going through theory books its all easy and I can answer the study questions but when it comes to "real situations" I seem to be clueless.

Sometimes I hear a riff or bass line in my head that I think would sound awesome but it never sounds as good when I try to play it. The same thing if I try to write riffs. Every now and then I manage to come up with something I like but once I try to transcribe it (the band uses Guitar Pro alot) and see it objectively it almost never seems to hold up.

Sorry this was a long post but I need encouragement and maybe some helping hands to lead me back on track. It seems like I do put effort in but it only reflects theoretically - I cant put it into pratice for whatever reason

[Hemon]

one word,
FEEL!
and, that's that "big deal". just relaxe, don't think about it. and, yes, make a "strate line" of you bass line making, don't say,"HEY, I WANNA DO THE TAPPING PART AND AFTER THAT SOME TASTY LOOKIN' FINE SLAP", that's bad, make a simple bass line, make it in your head and put it there where it belongs. i was just like you, death metal was my first introduction in music, that's why i have no groove. at least didn't have. my advice, listen to funk/smooth up tempo jazz and similar. sooner or later, you'll get into it (:
i hope i helped a little bit.
sorry for my bad eng. im not from around

[Fergie Fulton]

Imagination.....hear in your head all the lines that will go with the songs that are being written. Theory will not give you this, it will explain what it is you are imagining. Yes theory can help in this process but it is not the process order, you need the imagination or idea in place first.
The fact you hear lines but say they don't work is just you not hearing them in context, the more you do this the easier it becomes.
Everyone has great ideas but in reality they don't work sometimes, so save it for later, or use part of it and adapt it to work. Some times an idea just does not work, then a year later for no reason it does work, LOL there is to reason for it.
When working on ideas you will drop more than you use, that's a good thing because you never truly drop ideas you just use them later on at some point in some form.


Chances are most of your fans don't understand theory, they like what they hear, so you try and do the same thing. Listen to other forms of music hear how they work and interact then adapt and use it for yourself. Lots of rock players use classical music concepts like Bach used, Some rock bands swing from the back, Deep Purple is a classic example but in a rock context. Black Swedan combine Abba lyrics with rock songs, Dred Zepplin combined Elvis and Led Zepplin songs then played them reggae styles LOL. It about imagination,hearing things and then representing them in music.

[TheInsane]

Thanks for the cheering up. When I wrote that post I was so frustrated with myself. Somehow I cant manage to put theory into practice or mental ideas into musical reality with just a few exceptions.

I listen to all kind of music and get ideas from all around but I guess I should actually play other music as well. When Im in a band I often tend to concentrate only on playing that bands songs. Maybe I should take some time to study Mahavishnu Orchestra or something

I am definately going to try to focus more on realizing my mental music so that it comes out good when I play because I do feel and hear certain bass lines or grooves when I for example hear a new idea that our main songwriter puts forth. I guess its a matter of practice and of failure and success. Allthough I wish I succeeded more often... :/

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by TheInsane

Thanks for the cheering up. When I wrote that post I was so frustrated with myself. Somehow I cant manage to put theory into practice or mental ideas into musical reality with just a few exceptions.

I listen to all kind of music and get ideas from all around but I guess I should actually play other music as well. When Im in a band I often tend to concentrate only on playing that bands songs. Maybe I should take some time to study Mahavishnu Orchestra or something

I am definately going to try to focus more on realizing my mental music so that it comes out good when I play because I do feel and hear certain bass lines or grooves when I for example hear a new idea that our main songwriter puts forth. I guess its a matter of practice and of failure and success. Allthough I wish I succeeded more often... :/

We all have problems sometimes in life explaining what we mean, this concept we call "representation". It may be be we can do things or just know things that we can't explain, that is represent it in words. This is not a problem when dealing with oneself because we understand it, but can be a problem when we have to explain it to others. Exam boards have come to realize the limitation of the written exam, it does not mean that a student has learnt something it just means they can represent it on paper. That could mean the have just learned how it should look but maybe not understood it so can we say they have learned it? Its when we say "explain what you have written" that the truth will be found.

So to that end imagine you are a teacher and you have an idea for a song, how would you explain that to a class? Imagine you are doing an interview and the question is about the song, how do you explain that in the interview?

Just two techniques to help you focus on representation. Normally the first couple of attempts are long complicate affairs, but you will learn to work out what is relevant and what is not, you will work out words that could confuse the meaning, in other words you will get the idea across in a simple structured way. That's what the best teachers and song writer have in common, they get the message across in a simple matter of fact.
Put yourself in different musical situations with your playing, it is all learning even though you may not realise it, but you are learning.

[JTE]

Can you execute what you hear in your head, or do your fingers take over and you wind up playing licks, riffs, scales you already know? Here's a suggestion:

1. Put away your bass- lock it up so you won't be tempted to play it too early in this process
2. Play a recording of what yo're wanting to come up with a bassline for. Play it several times listening closely to it.
3. Now play that recording and SING what you think is a good bass part. Record this and listen to what you sang.
4. NOW get your bass out and learn EXACTLY what you sang. Do NOT let your fingers lwead you, but use your ears to make your fingers do what you sang.
5. Analyze that#with your theory knowledge

This process eliminates the chance of comfortable fingerings being the genesis of the music. It's a way to find YOUR voice and develop it.

John

[Hemon]

nice advice (=
tnx

[TheInsane]

Originally Posted by JTE

Can you execute what you hear in your head, or do your fingers take over and you wind up playing licks, riffs, scales you already know?

You might be on to something. I dont think its a matter of my fingers doing their own thing though. I never do record what I hear in my head through singing so it might be a case of my idea being reshaped once I try to actually play it.

I had a better day today. I tried to write some riffs and did come up with one riff I really like and a few things that might be able to get whiped into shape.

I also know that a big factor in me being able to come up with ideas is a good drum beat. Drums + strings are usually what makes an idea materialize in my head. Just hearing the bass line or a guitar riff seldom does it for me.

What was good about today was that I got some of the feeling back that I can do this. When I wrote my initial post it felt hopeless, probably because I had been so into doing the theory and then failing to put it into practice. My hope is coming back

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by TheInsane

What was good about today was that I got some of the feeling back that I can do this. When I wrote my initial post it felt hopeless, probably because I had been so into doing the theory and then failing to put it into practice. My hope is coming back

You're on it already, the thing you're realising is this is not about playing on a bass, its about application of what you know. Think why can you whistle or hum a song after hearing it once?