A Talkbass Challenge: Calling Everyone Out

[Kraken]

I'm Gonna try and work on my feel for songs, be they covers or stuff I've written myself, And I'm also going to continue my learning of musical knowledge through learning Piano.

I think that give me more than enough for a week

Adios

[FLEABITE]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


NO NO NO - we will choose worthwhile forms of alternative music to study

Thats what I meant.

[stephanie]

So how is everyone doing? It's been around a week since I posted what I was gonna work on and that was ear training so I thought I'd mention how I'm doing:

I picked an album from my favorite band, Live's very first album called "The Death Of A Dictionary" (this was before they were even called Live). Since my site I run has (ick!) Live bass tabz on it and there aren't any at all for this album I thought I'd do it myself.

So far I have one whole song finished. My second one is almost done. I've run into a little frustration with a couple songs, so I have to take it real slow.

Another thing I was doing was just sitting here listening to the radio and trying to play the basslines from the songs I heard, especially ones I was hearing for the first time or ones I was not too familiar with.

Cheers
Stephanie

[Camel_spit]

I think my challenge will be to work out the new way of playing my new teacher has taught. I used to simply play with two fingers but Greg (my teacher) is getting me to learn the more modern way of playing with my thumb and the first three fingers. It is a huge challenge to break old habits but I will get there, I know I will.

[FretGrinder]

What a very interesting - nay, provocative - thread. I feel like ranting now.

After about 5 years of playing bass guitar in a band capacity (I almost literally learnt onstage), when I think about how far I have to go to grow into a Musician (in the extended, personalized sense I reserve for weddings and funerals) it almost makes me depressed. Still, five years ago I couldn't keep time on a pocket watch, let alone play a bass guitar ... now (*I'd like to think*) I do what I do well, and that's writing basslines for my band and playing them live (though probably without overwhelming stage presence). I'm especially capable of this when I'm (we're) well practiced, which seems to be more and more the case now.

I also think, when we're good, we're *really* good, which is nice too.

It's also comforting to compare the equipment I was using then to what I own now. I started out with a Samick 4-string and no amp, and found myself borrowing a wheezy, flatulent Roland keyboard combo to practice with. A guitarist friend from uni got a friend in to play drums, and after a few practices we got onstage ... and after five years and dozens of borrowed everythings, a few thefts (of my gear), a major line-up change and many unpredictably unwinding circumstances, I now have a complete set up I really love.

The things I gotta work on, though ...

I'm almost completely self-taught, and I never really bothered with theory or even getting a repertoire together. I've pretty much just practiced for and played gigs, and spend some time noodling around by myself on the instrument ... the combination of an individualistic desire to be inventive and unique rather than technically proficient (or at least a suspicion that it was more achievable), and my own brand of apathy.

I won't try to dissect that course of action and wonder whether another would have been better. Thinking of now and the future ...

My pick technique is great, my fingerstyle not as reliable at speed but still, pretty good. Left hand is strong and confident, though not fast in the way people who come out of conservatoriums are. I see no reason to improve my basic technique beyond where it is as a reason unto itself. Instead I wish to learn and write music which extends me technically - that I can play because i need to be able to play, if you get me.

Everything else, pretty much, I want to improve very rapidly in. This includes, in no particular order: repertoire; musicality; improvisation; ability to play when toasted; composition & songwriting; singing; lyrics (volume written, not really quality); devotion of time; music collection; guitar & keyboard; singing & playing at the same time; theory; the ear thing; reading music; general knowledge; stage presence; practice time efficiency; volume, quality and completion of music written, and a pinch more solidity (ie not occasionally hitting the B string by mistake on my new 5-string).

For about the first time ever I've got a complete setup of good quality equipment that's all my own, and if I live carefully I can afford enough CDs, lessons and shows that I shouldn't want for inspiration or guidance.

So now that you've got me thinking .. let's see, in a week? I want to:

- continue to explore my ambitions on this topic and maybe make some privately addressed sweeping statements about the next few months
- have a band rehearsal as good as the one I had yesterday
- play for at least 2 hrs a day (would be more but i work full time)
- create a good plan for spending and dividing my time on music and start sticking to it
- work out a couple of basslines by ear, and vocals to one of these
- write & record (4-track) a new song, with lyrics, even if it's shlte, on any instrument.
- prevent this resurgence of enthusiasm for music from affecting my work (eg not hang out reading these forums all day and looking like I'm doing my best to get fired.)

Thanks for the opportunity to vent some things which have been swimming around my head, Jazzbo ... 'scuse the rant. See you here later.

- Pegwinder.

[JimM]

I mentioned this in strings or somewhere already,and since I'm gonna do it I might as well post it here.

I have a song coming up,I think in about 2-3 weeks that requires playing a low D for a long time.I've decided that since I can't go buy that five string I want(darn),I'm going to detune my Jazz to D-G-C-F.Then I've crossed the chord indicators out and written them in a whole step higher.So my brain and hands will think I'm in E,but I'll really be in D.

Too easy you say,not challenging enough?It's about all I can handle right now,at least it's something.the hardest part will be changing basses quickly between songs.

[Rafterman]

Originally posted by JimK
What Ed said-

My two objectives-
1)Groove like a drummer
2)Solo like a horn player

...still, working on #1(& after almost 30 years, too. Pathetic).

Though, I do agree, a bassist needs to be versatile.

so you're a drummer? (just making sure)

but those are my 2 goals also...but it's very hard to solo like a horn player on the bass...hand positions, etc. but yea...2 goals we share...but i'm not a drummer.

[yawnsie]

Well, here's an update...

I dug out some of my Motown CDs, and was making a reasonable fist of Heard It Through The Grapevine when I decided to take a break, and put on some Zeppelin. As you do, I managed to pick out the main riff to Ramble On, and I'm now going to try to transpose that. I'll try and post it in a few weeks.

[VIHBASS]

I said i was gonna work on my reading skills well i have to admit it i didn't
i did what I always do put on some cds and play along with them i did however work on timing by slowing things down to make sure i give each note its proper value
any suggestions

[Gard]

Hmm...well, this may apply tangentally to the topic:

I've been approached about a side gig with one of the trumpet players that works with my main bands (RM&SS, Tito Puente Jr). He has a trio that plays about once a week in a local club, very interesting concept. It's drums, trumpet, and bass. It already sounds pretty deep, right? Only guy outlining changes/chords is me. It gets deeper:

No rehearsals

No tunes

That's right folks, totally improvised from the downbeat on.

Now, despite the fact that I own an electric upright, I'm NOT a jazz player - I'm a rock/funk/R&B/latin guy that digs jazz. Luckily, this isnt' a "free jazz" thing exactly, what the leader wants is a groove to work over. He says that's why he hired me, because I don't get bored playing an ostinato pattern, and all the other "jazz cats" he's tried to do this with won't "stay home".

I've never done anything remotely like this, and the concept of doing it for the first time in front of an audience is a bit intimidating. So, of course I took the gig! (The money is pretty decent too, which don't hurt ).

I'd appreciate any pearls of wisdom that anyone could impart to me before the first (of three booked) gig which is this Thursday nite.

[FretGrinder]

i made a very nice 5 string fretboard chart. In this thread you can read about it and download a printable version.

THought it'd be a good place to start on music theory. Hope you like it.

[yawnsie]

Originally posted by Gard
I'd appreciate any pearls of wisdom that anyone could impart to me before the first (of three booked) gig which is this Thursday nite.

Okay... seek psychiatric help!

Actually, that sounds like a pretty interesting gig - let us know how you get on, and if you can try to get some Mp3s of it - I wouldn't mind hearing it.

[TitchM]

It'll be sight reading for me.

[Gard]

Originally posted by yawnsie


Okay... seek psychiatric help!

Actually, that sounds like a pretty interesting gig - let us know how you get on, and if you can try to get some Mp3s of it - I wouldn't mind hearing it.

I'm psychiatriacally helpless!!!

I think that the leader/trumpet player does record every gig on minidisc, I'll check with him and see if he does and if there's any chance of getting a snippet or 2 on line somewhere.

[JimK]

I'm bored, I stumble in here, I see rafterman is quoting me-

No, I'm not a drummer...if leo Fender didn't invent the 'precision' bass, I woulda played drums(I'm yer basic tone-deaf weasle who needs the frets...so acoustic bass is out!).

I am seeking the rhythmic freedom that drummers(the good ones)have over us bassists.
Soloing like a horn player-
...many are doing this already(a well-known electric example is Pastorius' solo over the changes to "Donna Lee"). It's in the phrasing(gotta learn to breathe when I play).

[JimK]

Gard-
...enjoy that challenge, bro!
Most of my favorite things in that originals' band was when the saxist, drummer, & I did our thing(the guitarist usually got lost after about a minute).
I wouldn't call our ramblings "Free Jazz", either...
my situation is about the same as your's(groove player NOT a Jazzer).
It's nice not having a chording instrument getting in the way!

BTW, I can't believe this is a 'paying gig' AND it includes an audience?!
My only suggestion-
...I really listened to the drummer(feel changes, time changes, dynamics, etc); basically, the sax guy did his thing.
Also, if you lock it down with an ostinato(say, a 2 bar phrase), think about moving the ostinato around within the bars(displacement)...or if it's in 4, do what it takes to put it in, say, 5?
Have fun!

Oh yeah-
Check out Roy Campbell's Pyramid Trio(Campbell on trumpet, William Parker on bass, & Hamid Drake on drums). Also, sometimes, Miles & Carter & Williams do it together(Hancock lays out). There's possibilities to be had...

[Chad Michael]

all seriousness aside......

hi phlegmhellisher!!!!

(just got a big kick out of your "monsterbovine" name sub!!!!!!!!!)

a challenge, huh????

i don't know which talkbasser said it, but the challenge for me is

"finding a group of musicians with remotely similar levels of: talent, musical interest, practice availability, compatibility"

plus the fact that my difficulty is to have an L.A. attitude, mediocre ability, and live in spokane and be a bassist all at once. I respect the challenge of this post, i'm so overwhelmed as is... call me
pathetic

[FretGrinder]

Just to keep you all updated:

I had a lesson on the weekend, and my challenge over the next while is going to be to go back and learn theory the long, slow, hard way, from the beginning. 2-octave C major scales all over the neck ... I'm going to try to put in 1.5 hrs almost every day (and more when i can) to break out of this plateau I got myself on ... thats on just music theory / etc and lifting basslines by ear ... plus 5 hrs weekly of band practice, freshly accepted shared management of the band (including web site design / build / promotion), full time work and a few meals means I'm pretty much fully booked out ... I'll let you know how it goes.

PS .. the site's only halfway there and there are no MP3s yet, but its a nice flash site ... ... and it's only 38 kb made it myself .. will start a thread when it's done.droppinghoney.com

[eViL cAkE]

Oh God, there are so many things I have yet to do to improve my playing.

I noticed a lot of people mentioned ear training. This is good, music is a hearing art therefore ear training is essential to being a musician.

However, it's mostly been in regards to people learning basslines off of recordings. This is all fine and good, but I have found that my personal issue with ear training is that I have developed an excellent ear for picking up bass guitar parts off of recordings, (assuming it's something I can technically pull off at the time, of course), and I'm also pretty good at figuring out basslines played by other bass instruments as well, such as, upright bass, tuba, cello, pianist's left hand, etc. (not as quickly as on a recording with electric bass, but still very accurately). However I have great difficulty learning a guitar, flute, fiddle, or vocal part on my bass. This represents a weak point in my skill that needs to be addressed. I also need to get to where I'm better at recognizing intervals, chords, modes etc. without my bass in my hands.

Aquainting myself the performance nuances of non bass playing musicians will introduce me to melodic patterns unusual to bass guitarists aswell as increase my sensitivity to phrasing and playing on different sides of the beat. The away from bass ear training skills will help to develope my internal ear, where I can recognize melodic ideas going on in my head without fumbling around on my bass to find it.

I also need to work on developing the whole floating thumb thing. I've been lazy, and always go back to planting my thumb on one of the pickups or the edge of the fingerboard.

Bad me, bad me.

By the way; cool idea Jazzbo. Great thread!

[jazzbo]

Well, I'm glad to see the thread took off. It's time for me to report back and provide an update on what I did.

I worked on soloing. Partly because a class was forcing me to do it, but partly because I recognized a personal desire to become better at it. I've never worked on soloing. I've never had much interest in it, because I truely believed, first learn walk, then learn fly.

So, to tackle this I used two things:

• Jamey Aebersold Vols. 1 & 24. These two books have a series of drills were a particular chord is vamped for a certain number of bars, then another. It allows you some time get comfortable playing within the one chord/scale, and to experiment.
  
• Learning and Playing Melodies. I've often neglected song melodies. I went through a lot of jazz tunes and learned the melodies, and also the melodies to a lot of R&B songs. Learning and playing the melodies helped me hear melody in general.

My approach was to record everything! I recorded myself constantly and listened to it. I found a lot of times where I liked a particular part, but didn't like others. Sometimes I didn't like some things because I didn't think it worked well at that time, not because I didn't like what I played. I listened a lot and critiqued the solo, to listen to it as first a lay person. Did I enjoy the sound that was happening? Was it entertaining? Then, more technically. Did it say something? Did it make sense? Where did I step on myself?

I feel I've made some progress, and I've built a foundation of practice techniques that can easily be incorporated into my overall practice very easily.