Teach me how to count

[sackvegas]

I've been playing Bass for many years in numerous rock bands and my dirty secret is I can't count for $hit, I have good feel and it has helped me get past this but now that i'm learning how to walk I find it very difficult to count and play at the same time, can anybody shed some light on this for me and give me some basic to advanced excercises?

Odd meter stuff is hard for me too, so any excercises related to that would also be great.

Thanks!

[hbarcat]

[Elemeninki]

Haha ^

Try tapping your foot, or learning the music to the point where you can play it without thinking, and use your brain cell(s) to count with.


Edit: Maybe your trying to count over your playing? Try playing over your counting, if you get what I mean.

[sackvegas]

HAHA I can keep time well within the band it's just that when it comes to walking bass lines and trying to play chord tones on strong beats I tend to totaly fall apart, trying to count and make sure i'm playing the right notes really screws me up, i'm proly thinking about it too much but its definatly my weakest point in my playing.

The odd meter thing as well, there are different ways to count odd meters aren't they? My old drummer used to come up with all kinds of crazy beats in odd meters and it would take me a while to lock in just cause I wouldn't be counting i'd wait to feel it out instead, it usually always worked out good but i'd like to be able to count it AND feel it at the same time!

Thanks again for any advice/excercises

[dfuruta]

A trick that I use for learning difficult rhythms is to count steady beats out loud ("one and two and three and four and") and then clap the rhythm at the same time. If you do this enough with a variety of rhythms, you'll internalize the counting. Use a metronome.

Keep in mind when you're counting difficult rhythms that you normally shouldn't have to go higher than 3 or 4. For example, if you're counting something in 5, don't count one two three four five; count either one two one two three or one two three one two. If you're in 7, count one two three four one two three, or whatever the subdivision may be. I'm a cellist as well as a bassist, and this strategy saves me when I'm playing modern classical music.

[sackvegas]

Thanks dfuruta, that sounds good, keeping things to 4 and under definatly simplifys things, any more advice would awesome thanks!

[COOL AND DEADLY]

hBARCAT, thank you that is hilarious

[paganjack]

mutter to yourself, or tap your fingers or feet, whatever. the other night i made a breakdown line that was 5/8,5/8,6/8,6/8. not the most complicated of lines, and fairly short. but to help learning the rhythm and to make it feel natural, i kept repeating the rhythm [fairly quietly]
DA da da DA da
DA da da DA da
DA da da DA da da
DA da da DA da da

i got a few weird looks in the grocery store, but after a few minutes i had the rhythm pretty well locked in. choosing which beats to emphasize helps too (as someone mentioned above). the more time you spend practicing in some format or another, the better. youll be surprised when you pick up your bass again and the rhythm feels so much more natural because your brain is familiar with it.

you could also beatbox the rhythms. then you look all gangsta schizo, instead of regular schizo.

[sackvegas]

Haha gangsta schizo is my specialty, keep em coming!

[sackvegas]

TOP

[projectMalamute]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-YcBVEnLT8

[BryanM]

I found that it really helps to have a versatile metronome.

<off topic>
Does anyone know of a software metronome that's pretty much fully variable (i.e. you can set it to 3/4:4/4 with accent on the 1 in both of the measures, like Da da da Da da da da)? I think that would be a really useful practice tool, especially if it allowed for multiple instances for polyrhythms.
</off topic>

[GreggBummer]

+1 To the Metronome.

There are a trillion different software nomes out there. www.sourceforge.net has a bunch in addition to a whole lot of other freeware projects.

However, I strongly suggest a small portable metronome. I bring mine to rehearsal... sometimes when the band isn't "hitting" it I break it out. It helps... alot.

I try to practice with my nome (or a cheezy drum machine) when I practice. Here is a link to a good one:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Tama-Rhy...96-i1136690.gc

I use it when I play drums... but it is an awesome nome.

Also... if you ever get the chance... take a few drum lessons. I found that taking up the drums have really made me a much better bassist. I am a crappy drummer... but a MUCH better bassist.

[fearceol]

Maybe this might be of some help.



http://blog.pandora.com/archives/pod..._time_sig.html

[sackvegas]

Thanks again for all the suggestions, if anyone has any more keep em coming

[E2daGGurl]

this is going to sound silly, but others have found it helpful.

you count the four beats first (leave 3/4 for a different time). And you work on counting out the measures first...

1 2 3 4
2 2 3 4
3 2 3 4
4 2 3 4

(you say in your head) while tapping your foot.

Next come eight notes.

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and (everyone I know uses "and" for the 8th note beat). While tapping your foot four four.

Then it's 1 and uh 2 and uh ( triplets ), while tapping your foot four four.

To do 16th notes, I just count each measure as two measures and count faster, one and two and three and four and (but now the measures are broken down into two parts - somehow, that's the only way I can do it, and I am not alone).

Others may have other methods.

[notalent]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Maybe this might be of some help.



http://blog.pandora.com/archives/pod..._time_sig.html

Thanks for linking that! What a great bunch of podcasts

[brassed]

Sackvegas,

What style is it that you are having trouble counting? Are you reading or just playing by ear. I have exercises if you are reading a sheet of music or leadsheet.

I have my students who are having problems counting (this is more towards a hearing only approach) to force themselves to tap their foot along to music for the entire week between lessons. I also have them record what time signature they feel a song is in. If you cant tell the difference between time signatures, you cant tell where the strong beat is. This goes along with Paul Hindemith's "Elementary Training For Musicians"

~divide and conquer~
Brassed

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by sackvegas

I've been playing Bass for many years in numerous rock bands and my dirty secret is I can't count for $hit, I have good feel and it has helped me get past this but now that i'm learning how to walk I find it very difficult to count and play at the same time, can anybody shed some light on this for me and give me some basic to advanced excercises?

Odd meter stuff is hard for me too, so any excercises related to that would also be great.

Thanks!

Why do you feel the need to "count". You said that you have a lot of experience and good feel. Just play brother.

The problem you might be experiencing is with improvisation. You haven't become comfortable with common patterns and ways to connect chords.

Honestly, I found walking bass to be very difficult. I transcribed bass lines and wrote out bass lines for years. Only recently have I really allowed myself the freedom to improvise walking bass lines on my gigs. The thought process behind what you're doing can really slow things down.

So, it's not your counting that's failing you. You're dealing with a whole different way of playing. It will come. Be patient. Keep practicing. There are a lot of posts on walking bass that can help you. There are some great books out there too. Friedland makes a great book. Also, Todd Johnson has a very nice DVD for beginners.

Best of luck,
Joe

[milljo]

Count EVERYTHING that you listen to. I do it without even thinking about it. I don't know what genres you're into. Tool plays in odd times pretty often. The first few songs on Lateralus are in 5/4. Of course, most songs you hear are in 4/4. Count when you're listening. Eventually it'll work it's way into your playing.