teaching someone how to lay down a groove?

[KSDbass]

ok, my band is playing money by pink floyd ( ) and since my drummer is really self conscious, I have to teach him to groove out so he can have cool drum lines. so what I'm wondering is, how do you teach someone? and by grooving out I mean like, changing some quarter notes to eighth notes, adding a one note before you go into a transition, stuff like that. I tried just telling him to do stuff like that but he just doesn't have a feel for it. thanks for the help

[burntgorilla]

I don't think you can teach someone to groove. That's kind of missing the point. If you're doing Money, tell him to listen to it and just try to get into the feel of it.

[Howard K]

by grooving out I mean like, changing some quarter notes to eighth notes, adding a one note before you go into a transition, stuff like that.

I have to say, I dont think these notatable factors can constitute groove anyway. A groove is about feel, you have to listen to the group and play with them, you have to repeat bar after bar until the sounds you make fit with the sounds everyone else makes.
A great musician makes another musician sound better so the sum is greater than the two parts.

Making music groove comes from a number of things, the two key ones I think are:
1) Time on the instrument - you just gotta put in the hours so that you have enough subtle control over the instrument to make the immeasurable natural changes neccessary to get into the pocket
2) Solid time - if you're not consistant, you're unstable and the other guys dont know where you're gonna be from one beat to the next.

..and of these are closely linked, you wont have subtle control over the groove until you have solid time, and vice versa

I guess what I'm saying is that no amount of instruction can make your drummer groove, but praticing grooves and playing with him for hours until you really gel as a rhythm section can!

(where i say "you", read "one"!)

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by KSDbass

ok, my band is playing money by pink floyd ( ) and since my drummer is really self conscious, I have to teach him to groove out so he can have cool drum lines. so what I'm wondering is, how do you teach someone? and by grooving out I mean like, changing some quarter notes to eighth notes, adding a one note before you go into a transition, stuff like that. I tried just telling him to do stuff like that but he just doesn't have a feel for it. thanks for the help

When playing odd or combined time signatures, the ability to read music is a must. "Money" (or at least the part I think you're talking about) is a measure of three followed by a measure of four. As in:

One two three. One two three four.
Do not count it as seven!

To get the feel you are looking for, count it like this:

One two-and-three. One two three four.

Practice it together until muscle memory kicks in. Then, your drummer can loosen up and do the accents off-time with his/her left hand.

Does that help?

* By the way, saying "Just do stuff like that" to a drummer doesn't even register on our brainpans.

[KSDbass]

thanks guys, that helps alot, I guess my meaning of grooving and the reall meaning are kind of different. but anyway, we should be able to make the drummer feel special.

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by KSDbass

thanks guys, that helps alot, I guess my meaning of grooving and the reall meaning are kind of different. but anyway, we should be able to make the drummer feel special.

Why do I feel as though I just took one on the chin?

Ladies and Gentlemen, we drummers are every bit the musicians bassists (or guitar players, or trombonists for that matter) are. I am a musician who plays drums and am learning bass. This is yet another way for me to express myself musically. And that's the whole point, yes?

None of our chosen instruments can be considered easy. We all deserve the same respect.

Except for lead singers- that's different!

[burntgorilla]

Actually, I regard drums as one of the hardest instruments. I have pretty poor timing, and trouble coordinating two hands on a keyboard, so drums seem very tricky to me.

[Howard K]

WARNING! WARNING! HEADING WAY OFF TOPIC!

The way I see it all instruments are created equal, just different. No single one is easier that any other.

Guitar and fretted electric bass are much harder to make sound fluid and lyrcial than a sax or trumpet, because you cant breath into a note on a fretted instrument, hence a very sharp attack, but transposing to a new key is far easier on guitar than a horn, for example, C#, no probs, *shifts up a fret*

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by Howard K

WARNING! WARNING! HEADING WAY OFF TOPIC!

+1

Back to the original question. The only way to teach one to lay down a groove is like anything else:

Practice, practice, practice!

[JimK]

IMO, if one has some concept of 'time', groove can indeed be taught...making it sound 'musical' vs. 'mechanical', though, is the trick.

[Dkerwood]

You may not be able to teach "groove", but knowing a huge vocabulary of idiomatic musical phrases can help a lot.

So I think you're helping out by teaching him musical phrases.

There are really only three ways to learn a strong musical vocab. You can be taught by someone else, you can learn by watching and listening, or you can stumble onto things on your own. A strong musician will usually have a mix of the three.

Once you have that strong vocabulary, and you have a huge arsonal of licks to lay down, you can apply that to a strong internal clock and really start to groove.

[Vosk]

Originally Posted by JimK

IMO, if one has some concept of 'time',

Wrong track, he's doing Money, not Time

[JimK]

...I actually got that!