Techniques for learning sight reading

[RichardFeynman]

First of, I hope this is the right section, and I couldn't find anyone else with the problem when searching (so I apologize if this thread was unnecessary).

Now onto my strife. I have been playing classical trumpet for around ten years, so I know how to read music. But I have only been playing bass for about two years and I was so excited about playing by ear (which I rarely did with trumpet) that I neglected learning to read music.
Now that I am really trying to focus on trying to sight read sheet music, I find that it is very, very difficult for me. This is a little hard to explain so bear with me please:
For my bass lessons, my instructor has me learn pieces, but because I am so terrible at reading music is what I end up doing is inadvertently memorizing how to play it piece by piece by what I know about where the notes are.
Does this make sense? For example, instead of automatically snapping to a position on the fretboard when I see a note, I think the name of the note in my head, and then try to remember where that note is located on the bed.
I seem to remember when learning to read music on the trumpet that I knew which fingering was used to play a note better than the note name. I feel like because of this I cannot create a real connection between a note on the staff and a position on the fretboard.
Now, since I am aware of this, I have tried very hard to get over this by brute force lately. My instructor has given me some Bach suites etc and have attempted to sit down and sight read them as slowly as necessary. But what happens every time without fail is I use the note names from the page to memorize the pattern with which I can play it with my left hand, and by the time I can get any fluidity in the piece I am not even looking at the music. I have done this many many times and it gets me nowhere.



What can I do to truly learn to sight read? Do I just need to start with a beginning music book that introduces one note at a time, and play hours and hours of "hot cross buns?" Are there any tricks in learning sight reading? What did you do to learn? I consider myself a musician deeply rooted in theory and I am frustrated nearly to my wits end with the fact that I can't even read music on the bass.

Thanks for your time

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by RichardFeynman

First of, I hope this is the right section, and I couldn't find anyone else with the problem when searching (so I apologize if this thread was unnecessary).

Now onto my strife. I have been playing classical trumpet for around ten years, so I know how to read music. But I have only been playing bass for about two years and I was so excited about playing by ear (which I rarely did with trumpet) that I neglected learning to read music.
Now that I am really trying to focus on trying to sight read sheet music, I find that it is very, very difficult for me. This is a little hard to explain so bear with me please:
For my bass lessons, my instructor has me learn pieces, but because I am so terrible at reading music is what I end up doing is inadvertently memorizing how to play it piece by piece by what I know about where the notes are.
Does this make sense? For example, instead of automatically snapping to a position on the fretboard when I see a note, I think the name of the note in my head, and then try to remember where that note is located on the bed.
I seem to remember when learning to read music on the trumpet that I knew which fingering was used to play a note better than the note name. I feel like because of this I cannot create a real connection between a note on the staff and a position on the fretboard.
Now, since I am aware of this, I have tried very hard to get over this by brute force lately. My instructor has given me some Bach suites etc and have attempted to sit down and sight read them as slowly as necessary. But what happens every time without fail is I use the note names from the page to memorize the pattern with which I can play it with my left hand, and by the time I can get any fluidity in the piece I am not even looking at the music. I have done this many many times and it gets me nowhere.



What can I do to truly learn to sight read? Do I just need to start with a beginning music book that introduces one note at a time, and play hours and hours of "hot cross buns?" Are there any tricks in learning sight reading? What did you do to learn? I consider myself a musician deeply rooted in theory and I am frustrated nearly to my wits end with the fact that I can't even read music on the bass.

Thanks for your time

buy a bunch of dots and practice reading them without spending time memorizing before moving on to the next piece.....and count out loud......counting should occupy enough brain cells that memorization will not be possible

[RichardFeynman]

What do you mean by "buy dots"?
The problem for me is that I can't read without memorizing. It is like there is no correlation between the note I see and the note I play. I really need something to solidify a reaction to a note on the fretboard, I think. Again, this is very hard to explain.
Also: this may have to do with the fact that I have to learn bass clef simultaneously.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by RichardFeynman

What do you mean by "buy dots"?
The problem for me is that I can't read without memorizing. It is like there is no correlation between the note I see and the note I play. I really need something to solidify a reaction to a note on the fretboard, I think. Again, this is very hard to explain.
Also: this may have to do with the fact that I have to learn bass clef simultaneously.

dots=charts.....if you read through a piece once then put it aside and do another one......eventually you will not have to think about the note.....hit the used books for back issues of guitar rags.....there are usually bass lines in issues before 1999,and they are good practice for little money.....

[waleross]

If you could read trumpet music then reading bass clef isn't all that difficult. On the bass guitar "middle-C" is on the G string (bottom string) 5th fret. Now if you are talking string bass then learning to read bass clef is all part of learning the bass. Your instructor can start with the "all cows eat grass" which are the space notes....A C E and G....the line notes are "Good boys do fine always" G B D F A.......This is just like teaching a person how to read english, only these are notes. Keep plugging away and in a couple of months, you'll laugh at how easy it really is. A piano can also help you a lot. Sit at the piano and go up and down from Middle C and find it on the bass....good luck

[electracoyote]

Richard, what you are doing is rote memorization. You are not learning to sight read. This is probably because the pieces are too complex.

You need to communicate this to your teacher, and tell him your ear is eclipsing your eyes. You need simpler, and very random, pieces. They may not be all that musical, but simple, random pieces designed to keep you honestly reading the music instead of memorizing the line like a melody are in order, and widely available in a variety of beginner method books.

"Hot Cross Buns," or any other very familiar piece, is not a good learning piece. You know it too well, and your ear will easily take over.

Also, I encourage my students to use a method I call "say it and play it." In your effort to make a mental connection between arbitrary things like the line on the staff, the note on your bass, and a letter of the alphabet, you need to say the name of the note out loud as you play it.

It really helps. Simple, random pieces (or very unfamiliar pieces) and "say it and play it." After awhile, your hand automatically knows where to go with far less mental energy.

And I hope you and your teacher will stay in first position until you get the ability to read all those notes down pat.

[RichardFeynman]

Thanks everyone for all your help!

electracoyote- what you are saying makes perfect sense, and I am excited to employ your advice! I remember when I began learning trumpet, there was a book of practical studies that everyone used because it did exactly what you are saying. (It was called "The Getchell" First Book of Practical Studies for Cornet and Trumpet sheet music by Robert W. Getchell | Sheet Music Plus). Are there any standards of this type for bass that you know of? Or would just any book I find with studies that aren't easily recognizable or where my ear can pull me through work?

Thanks again!

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by RichardFeynman

Are there any standards of this type for bass that you know of? Or would just any book I find with studies that aren't easily recognizable or where my ear can pull me through work?

Thanks again!

Amazon.com: Mel Bay Note Reading Studies for Bass (0796279021784): Arnold Evans: Books

The first half is dry as a bone, but it does exactly what we are discussing, and it has interesting rhythms and toward the end actually gets quite good. Small caveat: no CD. It's really no big deal.

For something a little more fun and pop-oriented, but not predictable, I still use these with my students:

Amazon.com: Hal Leonard Bass Method - Complete Edition: Books 1, 2 and 3 Bound Together in One Easy-to-Use Volume! (9780793563838): Ed Friedland: Books

Amazon.com: FastTrack Bass Method - Book 1 (Bk.1) (9780793574087): Jeff Schroedl, Blake Neely: Books

Amazon.com: Mel Bay Mastering the Bass, Book 1 (Book/CD Set) (9780786659784): Bruce Gertz: Books

The Friedland books are quite good. Ed checks in with us here on TB once in awhile, good guy, great educator. My only concern is there are a few pages that have TAB accompaniment, but you can easily put some masking tape over the TAB. The majority of the lessons and practice pieces are not TAB, standard notation only.

The Fasttrack books are also quite good, but you have to be sure you are getting the non-TAB edition or tape off the TAB.

The Gertz books are pretty serious business, you may want to save those for later. They are aimed at the beginner/intermediate, but they move really fast.

[ILIA]

Read trombone/euphonium duets with your teacher. If your teacher can't sight-read the trombone duets, then get a new teacher. Most importantly, read trombone duets with other bassists outside of lesson time. Why t-bone duets you may ask? No tab. No idiomatic composition. No repetitive writing so no temptation to memorize. No genre-based writing that allows the reader to draw on ear/experience to execute the written instructions.

Find a performing ensemble that uses sheet music. There is no substitute for playing in a big band.

There is no shortcut. You just have to read and read a lot. If you have time to memorize, you are not attempting to process enough music. You should be trying to read so much music that it would be impossible to memorize.

Finally, stay away from illiterate musicians. Honest question, could your teacher pull off a jingle session? If not, get a new teacher.

[JTE]

The bottom line to sight reading is just do it. Get a LOT of books, put them in a pile and pull one out. Take the first page and read it through. Don't stop to correct mistakes, don't start over again, just start at the beginning and go to the end of the piece. Then put it at the bottom of the pile and take the next book. Repeat every day.

John

[mpdd]

maybe try noodling around on a keyboard or piano, that's how i learned how to read better

[Snarf]

To the OP:

Get as much bass clef sheet music as you can get your hands on. Piano music (especially Bach) is great too, just read the left hand. Trombone and cello music is great. Pick up the sight reading books that Berklee Press puts out. They're better than most other books by Mel Bay and the like.

Take a piece and set the metronome to a very, very slow tempo, and read through it, preferably without pausing. Keep your tempo REALLY slow; the fact that you have to play so incredibly slowly will be demoralizing at first, but put that out of your head; just do it.

Read through absolutely everything you've got, never go back to the beginning and try again. Memorizing something will guarantee that you won't be sight reading it, you'll just be practicing it, which is not what you want to do. Constantly running through unfamiliar material is the best way to get good at reading. Eventually you'll run out of stuff, but you want to have enough so that when you do, you can just start over and it's mostly unfamiliar.

[theretheyare]

I concur with Snarf. I myself have trouble "focusing" on written music. That's exactly how I exercise to overcome that: every study session, and only once, play a different piece (for example a bass part from Bach's Brandenburger Concerto's, or something frorm his solo cello solo suites) from start to finish with the metronome as SLOW as possible, no matter what.

To play super slow opens up a wealth of added rewards, by the way: all at once, every note counts and is open to interpretation (attack, dynamics, finger placement, legato vs staccato and so on) upon immediate reading, no less. All at once 'boring' and 'getting through the piece' becomes 'music', just you and your bass.

[Mayers]

I learn the place of the note on the fretboard and on the staff when I started playing bass. I don't know why it was easy for me.

Since you already know the name of the note and you already know half and whole step between note ... you can discovert all the fretboard easily.

[Stumbo]

You might want to check out: Absolute Fretboard - Order Page
There's a free download to be able to check out the program. I downloaded the "lite" version as they call it. IMO, Xlnt tutorials. Seems to do what it says. Based on your post, it appears that it will get you past your learning "hump". The full version runs $49.95 right now with life time free upgrades if purchased by 4/16/11. Money back guarantee. Note: I have no financial interest in this program.

It includes a visual bass clef staff note to fretboard position drill with sound along with many others.

Here are a few TB and online links that may help you out as well:
~Sight Reading
1 Learning
2
Improving
Practicing
Sight reading source material
Transcribe/read transcriptions free online
Free bass clef sheet music Sight reading
Beginner's Bass Clef tips
print bass clef flashcards/staff paper

On-line tutors
Online fretboard/SN trainer Sight reading
"Name that note" online SN game
Downloadable read "bass clef" software
Online bass clef audio/visual trainer
{url=www.studybass.com/lessons/reading-music/bass-clef-fretboard-notes/bass-clef-notes-fretboard.pdf}Note: paste web address to your search bar to Download this cool doc: clef to fretboard translation. Memorize this!

[RichardFeynman]

Wow this has all been wonderfully helpful.
I went to the local music store and they had a pile of free beginning band books so I grabbed a couple trombone ones told hold me over until I decide on a purchase or two (I am very cheap).
I have realized that reading bass is much harder than reading trumpet, where there are maybe two fingerings per not max. What I am finding most difficult is connecting the different fingerings for the same notes in different keys. For example when I play in C major, I usually settle near a position on the board where I E (which I recognize on the page as a E now) as the third degree of the scale, usually played with my first finger. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a connection to the E I play when I'm in (or at least thinking) A major, which is the 5th degree. I my mind so far they are totally separate notes. Saying the names out loud when I play is helping, but god damn! I guess I have along road ahead.
I have much respect for all of you.
Thanks again everyone for all of the great help promoting literacy!

[Stumbo]

I feel like because of this I cannot create a real connection between a note on the staff and a position on the fretboard.

But what happens every time without fail is I use the note names from the page to memorize the pattern with which I can play it with my left hand...

...by the time I can get any fluidity in the piece I am not even looking at the music. I have done this many many times and it gets me nowhere.

What can I do to truly learn to sight read?

I wish I had your problem!

You have a great gift in being able to playing/recalling all music from memory once you've heard it a few times. My wife is what I call the "human juke box". Same gift.

I suggest learning from any of the "non-melodical" tools listed in my post above. They test you on note recognition with no melodies(most with not sound at all) involved. Basically a mental memorization process. Maybe that might be the ticket!

What I am finding most difficult is connecting the different fingerings for the same notes in different keys.

I suggest you work out the which fret position/fingering you're going to use ahead of time and write it on the sheet music.

Originally Posted by RichardFeynman

... I grabbed a couple trombone ones told hold me over until I decide on a purchase or two (I am very cheap).

Don't let your "cheapness" get in the way of purchasing some good learning tools that may help you smooth out your learning curve.
FYI: The "Absolute Fretboard" program has a note to fretboard position learning tool.

Good luck.

[jarrydee]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

I wish I had your problem!

You have a great gift in being able to playing/recalling all music from memory once you've heard it a few times. My wife is what I call the "human juke box". Same gift.

I suggest learning from any of the "non-melodical" tools listed in my post above. They test you on note recognition with no melodies(most with not sound at all) involved. Basically a mental memorization process. Maybe that might be the ticket!


I suggest you work out the which fret position/fingering you're going to use ahead of time and write it on the sheet music.



Don't let your "cheapness" get in the way of purchasing some good learning tools that may help you smooth out your learning curve.
FYI: The "Absolute Fretboard" program has a note to fretboard position learning tool.

Good luck.

I wish there was a way to switch the fretboard around, when using the program it all seems backwards to me!

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by jarrydee

I wish there was a way to switch the fretboard around, when using the program it all seems backwards to me!

Are you left handed?
Write to the programmer and let him know what you need. He's replied to my emails. Let him know your from TalkBass.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by Snarf

To the OP:


Read through absolutely everything you've got, never go back to the beginning and try again. Memorizing something will guarantee that you won't be sight reading it, you'll just be practicing it, which is not what you want to do. Constantly running through unfamiliar material is the best way to get good at reading. Eventually you'll run out of stuff, but you want to have enough so that when you do, you can just start over and it's mostly unfamiliar.

Great tips, I always run into that problem, play through it a few times and I quit looking at the sheet music and not practicing reading anymore and concentrate on playing it "perfectly".