Theory Question

[Milk_Steak]

Noob theory question here, If i play the 5th fret on the A string I know my fifths are the 5th fret on the E or the 7th fret on the D, What interval is it if my root is the 5th fret on the A and i play the 5th fret on the D or the 3rd fret on the E, Also if my root is the 5th fret on the A what interval is the 8th fret on the A???

[genericusername]

A. fourths,
B. Minor third

[Milk_Steak]

awesome thank you, What if i root the 5th fret on the A and play the 8th fret on the E? Is that a 7th? if not what is?

[fearceol]

Hope this helps. I'd recommend that you ear mark the site, as IMO it is one of the best.

Basic Intervals

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Milk_Steak

Noob theory question here, If i play the 5th fret on the A string I know my fifths are the 5th fret on the E or the 7th fret on the D, What interval is it if my root is the 5th fret on the A and i play the 5th fret on the D or the 3rd fret on the E, Also if my root is the 5th fret on the A what interval is the 8th fret on the A???

See if these three charts can help.

Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Major Scale Chart
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb

Memory pegs:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos. Order of the scales with sharps.
Fat cats go down alleys eating birds. Order of the sharps.
Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasily cooked. Order of the scales with flats.
The key signature is showing three sharps. What scale has three sharps? C has none, G has one, D has two, A has three. Which sharps? Fat Cats Go = so the A major scale has three sharps, F#, C# and G#.

Natural Minor Scale Chart
A B C D E F G ................Notice how the 6th column of the
E F# G A B C D................Major scale becomes the 1st column
B C# D E F# G A..............in the minor scale and how the 7th
F# G# A B C# D E............column of the Major scale is now the
C# D# E F# G# A B..........2nd column in the minor scale. And
G# A# B C# D# E F#........yep, the 1st column in the Major scale
D# E# F# G# A# B C#......is now the 3rd column, etc. etc.
A# B# C# D# E# F# G#....Ask your self why? Hint, think relative minor.
D E F G A Bb C
G A Bb C D Eb F
C D Eb F G Ab Bb
F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab
Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb

[trblWthTrebles]

i think there's some confusion between intervals and scale degrees here.

The follow up scenario is a minor 7 on the scale but the interval is a second.

Unless I'm the only one confused

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by trblWthTrebles

i think there's some confusion between intervals and scale degrees here.

The follow up scenario is a minor 7 on the scale but the interval is a second.

Unless I'm the only one confused

I buy the b7 but do not understand your statement; "the interval is a second".

Care to explain? Not trying to yank your chain, you may be on to something I'm missing.

[FretlessMainly]

Originally Posted by Milk_Steak

awesome thank you, What if i root the 5th fret on the A and play the 8th fret on the E? Is that a 7th? if not what is?

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

I buy the b7 but do not understand your statement; "the interval is a second".

Care to explain? Not trying to yank your chain, you may be on to something I'm missing.

It depends on what you use as the basis for defining the interval. The OP indicated a D on the A string (serving as the root) and a C on the E string. In an abstract sense (meaning no key to worry about), that interval is a major 2nd. But if we use the D as the root, the note C functions as a minor seventh in interval-speak (or a b7 in chord-speak, as you indicate), but is an octave below the actual b7. Abstractly, I would describe that interval as a major 2nd, but I would think of the interval (assuming D as the root) as a minor 7th with 7th below the root.

Edited to add: Let's take another scenario to illustrate the relationship between intervals and how they relate to chord structure. Part of the issue here is that the OP used term "root," which indicates how the chord is to be named. Let's abandon that for now and play D as the 5th fret A string and B as the 4th fret G string. That interval is a Major 6th. Now, switch the B from 4th fret G string to 7th fret E string (and keep the D where it was). Same notes, but different orientation. But in both cases, you could think of the two notes as a minor third (of B minor). In the first case (D to B), the b3 is in the bass with the root above (1st inversion) and in the second case (B to D), the root is in the bass with the b3rd above (root position). So, it's important to see intervals in terms of how they relate to chord function and inversion. Thus, a major 6th can be the same as a minor 3rd, at least functionally, which is far more important than theoretically. In other words, it's more important to understand how an interval is functioning that what the literal interval is. The key to understanding this is that the root is not always the bass note (i.e., lowest note).

As a check, note that if you add a Major 6th to a minor 3rd, you get an octave. This is a general rule that applies across the board (e.g., when inverted, a Major 2nd = a minor 7th; a 4th = a 5th...).

[MalcolmAmos]

FretlessMainly - thanks, for your post.

Originally Posted by trblWthTrebles

i think there's some confusion between intervals and scale degrees here.

The follow up scenario is a minor 7 on the scale but the interval is a second.

Unless I'm the only one confused

Then trblWthTrebles is correct I did jump to scale degrees instead of interval spacing - m2 or M3, etc.

I've been thinking in scale degrees for so long I had forgotten about all that m2, M3 structure. For what it is worth I always found the interval structure (m2 or M3) to be confusing and could never connect the dots how this would help so I skipped over that and went to WWHWWWH half step / whole step and that ultimately landed me on scale degrees.

Milk_Steak if you are still on -- did not mean to confuse.

Malcolm

[trblWthTrebles]

I probably created more confusion than I resolved.
Fretless answered what I had in mind better than I would've.

The very first reply also told the op what he wanted to know but not exactly what he asked.

I brought it up because I'm noobish myself trying to get this stuff straight with a software developer's fetish for precise definitions of terms.

I play around with guitar tab a lot and often see the guitar playing an interval of a fourth. This usually 'means' 5-8 but rarely it actually is 1-4 when other instruments come in.

[mambo4]

In a strict sense intervals depend highly on which note is the lower tone and which higher.

E is the 5th Note in the scale of A (A B C# D E F# G#)
The interval form A up to E is a 5th,

but A is the 4th note in the scale of E (E F# G#A B C# D#)
The interval form E up to A is a 4th.

In Theory class we say a 5th inverts to a 4th.

So which one should we call it?

Practically speaking, musicians tend to base their intervals on the root of the current chord, or the key.
So if song is on an A chord, or in the key of A, calling E the 5th is the least confusing choice.