Thinking about chords and visualization

[osciphex]

I noticed in my thread about sus chords that everyone seems to be able to instantly rattle off the different notes in each chord. How do people generally think about chords? Do they really memorize every note in each chord in every key?

I generally think of them just in terms of their shape on the fingerboard. If I want to visualize a C7 chord, I don't think "C, E, G, Bb", instead I visualize this shape in my head:
_X__
X__X
_X__
(the shape of a 7th chord arpeggio in the mixolydian mode)

Is this a silly way to remember chords, would it be more worth my time to drill things until I can remember chords by their note names? (or even more complicated, their appearance in standard notation: to me a 7th chord in standard notation is a big block of indecipherable black dots) How do people get so good at picking out relationships between chords?

[chasfr]

I'm no expert, but I think eventually, after enough practice, I'll be able to add note names to the chord shape in my head/on my fingerboard almost automatically. It's a matter of having the template of the note names in your head the same way you have the chord shape. Then you just have to match them up. Does that make sense?

Have fun,
Chas

[stedtale]

Both, to me are the same now. I see the note names, the notes on the staff (perhaps not in the correct octave), the fretboard, finger positions, relation to different keys and scales, and if a wait a couple seconds the layout on the piano. And I can usually hear the chord sound...I don't hear a c7 chord, but I hear a 7 chord.

When I see them in all those ways, it's easy to see how the chords interact with each other, relate to each other, and how the notes move from oe to the other.

[agreatheight]

I try to do both, see the shape and know the notes. However, the notes are more important to me, as a shape will dictate the position of the note and tie me down. So if we are talking about C7, I would rather know C, G, E and Bb so I can play the notes where they sound best. This way I can play a low E and a low G rather than a higher note locked to the pattern.

[osciphex]

One of the problems I've found with my always thinking in shapes within a single octave of a scale is that every chord or arpeggio I play, I do so from root position. I can't play inversions of any of the chords.

This has become frustrating as I begin [trying to] learn walking basslines, everything I play comes out:

root inversion ii chord arpeggio - approach note - root inversion V chord arpeggio - approach note - root inversion I chord arpeggio ...

and so on. It gets boring and it doesn't sound remotely like what I hear "pro" bass players playing. But my brain seems to be locked into those those shapes; it's very hard for me to be comfortable playing anything besides those arpeggios - I'm not sure what to practice in order move on.

[hunta]

Originally Posted by osciphex

I noticed in my thread about sus chords that everyone seems to be able to instantly rattle off the different notes in each chord. How do people generally think about chords? Do they really memorize every note in each chord in every key?
How do people get so good at picking out relationships between chords?

The easiest way to "memorize every note in each chord in every key" is not to do that at all. Memorize the intervals, not the notes.

For example, a 7 chord is root, Major 3rd, Perfect 5th, and Minor 7th. You could also think of it in terms of stacked 3rds, ie the root with a Major 3rd, a Minor 3rd stacked on that, and a Minor 3rd on top.

Once you know the interval relationships you don't need to memorize the notes. If you want to figure out a C#7 chord, you just say "ok, C# is the root, a Major 3rd is E#, a Perfect 5th is G#, and a Minor 7th is B."

If anyone out there actually has every note in every chord in every key memorized, bravo! Go brain wrestle Stephen Hawking or something

[DocBop]

It really isn't as hard as you think some self drilling first on paper then in your head it doesn't take long. When stuck on one I will visualize the fingerboard to figure it out or check myself. But in long run that becomes and extra step and slows you down. When on the bandstand better to just know the notes of a Ami7 instantly and be able to use that to create a bassline or target notes to solo on. Than have to think of the neck in your head (dark stage) or have look down and think oh yea'll right. By then you need to think of something else.

The brain is like a computer and just need to not only program it, but feed it data too. In this case how to spell chords. This is why player spend hours, days, weeks, months, years playing same things over and over. Playing basslines over common chord progressions. Soloing over common chord changes. Sightreading rhythms over and over. You want all that data to be programmed into your computer brain so you can just focus on using the info in new and exciting ways.

It really doesn't take that long and each new thing you study become easily because you relate it to the last one. It all a building process.

[Eli M.]

Originally Posted by hunta

The easiest way to "memorize every note in each chord in every key" is not to do that at all. Memorize the intervals, not the notes.

For example, a 7 chord is root, Major 3rd, Perfect 5th, and Minor 7th. You could also think of it in terms of stacked 3rds, ie the root with a Major 3rd, a Minor 3rd stacked on that, and a Minor 3rd on top.

Once you know the interval relationships you don't need to memorize the notes. If you want to figure out a C#7 chord, you just say "ok, C# is the root, a Major 3rd is E#, a Perfect 5th is G#, and a Minor 7th is B."

If anyone out there actually has every note in every chord in every key memorized, bravo! Go brain wrestle Stephen Hawking or something

That's how it works for me. I never memorized all the notes in all the chords in the world, but if someone asks me to spell a chord, I only have to think about it for a second because I know the intervals.

Having played piano since age 6, I find it hard not to see a piano in my head when I do that. It probably helps that I can.

[JimmyM]

Eli's right about piano. It really helps to understand chords on other instruments if you know how to form chords on piano. You don't have to be good at piano, you really just have to know the notes and how to form chords. Some call it "arranger's piano."

But if that's not an option, learn chords by the intervals, not the shapes. Shapes tend to stick you in a rut and form chords the same way each time.