Thinking in tabs; yay or nay?

[J.A. Raptor]

Well, simply put, i'm a mostly self-taught (I learned a few lessons in scales from a guy at my church but that was roughly it) bassist who's looking to get an alt metal band off the ground this summer (think A Perfect Circle), and here's a problem i'm beginning to run into - I can play Bass but I actually know jack about it.

I've learned to play a lot of songs by tabs, and I know how to find the chords I need to play on my church worship teams, but now that i'm trying to sit down and put music to my lyrics i'm finding that I write it out in tabs, or just the chord I happen to be playing while i'm working on a riff. It's not in any real key, nor is it in a scale. Sure it sounds good and I can sing it just fine, but where I run into a problem is that when it comes time to do a demo and start auditioning guitarists, I can only hope that they'll know what i'm doing and what i'm playing and that they'll be able to play along.

Consider that i've been playing like this for 7 years now and I tend to think i'm thoroughly screwed. Can anybody offer any kind of advice to a guy locked into the tab mentality? I'm trying to make a proffesion out of my music and if I don't know/am going to have a VERY hard time learning theory (I can't even read sheet music), I might just be SOL.

[rappa29]

Find a good bass instructor and start getting formal lessons.

Or get instruction on basic music theory, scales, key signatures, meter, etc. You can get private instruction in that too.

Or pick up some basic music theory on your own via books or the web. But it helps to have someone explain to you how it all comes to together.

[standupright]

i'd suggest that if you have been doing this for 7 years now, that you put in the time and learn the discipline of music and theory. can you get around not learning it? sure. but it's kind of like reading words in a another language. sure, you may be able to read them, but your knowledge of their meaning is limited.

[Billnc]

1. You must learn to read if you want to play professionally. If musicians can do it anyone can.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by J.A. Raptor

.... It's not in any real key, nor is it in a scale. Sure it sounds good and I can sing it just fine, but where I run into a problem is that when it comes time to do a demo and start auditioning guitarists, I can only hope that they'll know what i'm doing and what i'm playing and that they'll be able to play along.

Yep theory is the language we speak to each other in. Fine when it's just you, but, you gotta talk to musicians using the right words.

Yes move away from tab. Reading and playing from standard notation is the ultimate goal. In between tab and playing from standard notation - are several other things you can do. Take it in steps.

One is some basic theory. Here is one site I recommend. Spend some time there then go to www.studybass.com

Sure a teacher is nice, however I've found that theory really does not get a lot of time in a 30 minute music lesson. Technique, yes, theory no. IMHO Theory is best learned at your own speed. Finding a theory book or site and then asking questions on a forum - like here. Here is that site I recommend.
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...ad.php?t=11975
It was written for the 6 string guitar. No problem, theory is theory. On the fretboard charts just ignore the top two strings.

Good luck.

[Rudreax]

Learn to read standard notation. Note that reading is NOT music theory, but the uses of the two combined are.

Go to this site after you learn to read:

http://www.musictheory.net

and learn everything there.

[BigOldHarry]

I'm an old curmudgeon: TABS BAD.

[Lichtaffen]

As a 40 year old who recently learned to read music, I can tell you that my playing has improved dramatically due to the fact that I can read/visualize complex rhythms I never imaged learning before. Make the time, you won't regret it.

[JTE]

Let's imagine a scenario where you give the musicians your song noted in tablature. The guitarist might be able to execute what you want pretty quickly. But what about a keyboard player?

It's a tool, but probably not the best tool in the box for communicating what you want. Sorta like using txt typng and refusing to capitalize ur mssgs when ur want help. Lots of folks will just blow it off.

John

[J.A. Raptor]

Thanks for the pointers guys (so glad I found this website!); I know a hint or two of theory from time in choir but you can only pick up so much when your teacher/directors main concern is just getting the time and pitch right. This definitely helps out a lot.

[mindbass]

my advice would be to get the standard notation for the Bach Cello Suites and start practicing those. 1 it will teach you how to read ( if you want to play it you'll have to learn it), 2 it will teach you a great deal about harmonies and chords even though there aren't any chords or harmony as such, and 3 let's not forget the technical issue of actually being able to play them.

good luck!

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by J.A. Raptor

Well, simply put, i'm a mostly self-taught (I learned a few lessons in scales from a guy at my church but that was roughly it) bassist who's looking to get an alt metal band off the ground this summer (think A Perfect Circle), and here's a problem i'm beginning to run into - I can play Bass but I actually know jack about it.

I've learned to play a lot of songs by tabs, and I know how to find the chords I need to play on my church worship teams, but now that i'm trying to sit down and put music to my lyrics i'm finding that I write it out in tabs, or just the chord I happen to be playing while i'm working on a riff. It's not in any real key, nor is it in a scale. Sure it sounds good and I can sing it just fine, but where I run into a problem is that when it comes time to do a demo and start auditioning guitarists, I can only hope that they'll know what i'm doing and what i'm playing and that they'll be able to play along.

Consider that i've been playing like this for 7 years now and I tend to think i'm thoroughly screwed. Can anybody offer any kind of advice to a guy locked into the tab mentality? I'm trying to make a proffesion out of my music and if I don't know/am going to have a VERY hard time learning theory (I can't even read sheet music), I might just be SOL.

I wouldn`t worry about it too much. I write things in tab more often than not because:
1. I rarely ever have notation manuscript by me
2. It`s just faster

Besides, nine times out of ten I can remember the rhythm and if it`s a particularly tricky passage then I can just write the rhythm above the tab.

In all honesty I don`t see the hate for tabs. Tabs are abundant and free, whereas notation costs money and is scarce (and honestly, in most cases notation has just as many mistakes as tabs - or at least as far as rock music is concerned).

With all this in mind, however, I`m a very good sight reader in both treble and bass clef. So YMMV

[JTE]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I... In all honesty I don`t see the hate for tabs. Tabs are abundant and free, whereas notation costs money and is scarce (and honestly, in most cases notation has just as many mistakes as tabs - or at least as far as rock music is concerned).

Well, not "hate", but the essential problem with tab is that it removes music from the notation and reduces playing to a physical event. It's like the difference between a wiring diagram that shows you where to put the wires and a real schematic that also helps you understand what's going on with the circuit. Each has some valid uses, but notation tells you what it sounds like, the key part of music.

John

[JeffBerlin]

Originally Posted by Billnc

1. You must learn to read if you want to play professionally. If musicians can do it anyone can.

Bill is correct! Further, music is the only written method of learning that totally represents musical ideas, rhythms, harmonies, and melodies. Since music is the only broad term of expression that can be presented on a stringed instrument, then music should be the only means to learn it if one is seeking an education.

Tab exists nowhere in music! It states that one should regard a number instead of a note. It is a false indicator of music since it doesn't represent rhythm and it also implies, if not outright states, that players who use this methods aren't capable to learn music the proper way. There is nothing whatsoever useful or redeeming about tab. It is a lie because, as I mentioned before, there isn't a single place other than a guitar magazine (which already knows that its readers can't read music) and the rock solos that should be learned by ear in the first place.

[Billnc]

Op mentions playing professionally as a goal. To assure your ability to work I'd recommend as a long term goal, to be able to read a broadway bass part. This is the one area of knowledge/skillset, where no matter where you live, you will be able to work. Schools, colleges, playhouses, auditoriums, acts on the "Where are they Now?" tour, all hire to do this type of work. The pay is almost universally good.

[groooooove]

[quote=J.A. Raptor;8637348]It's not in any real key, nor is it in a scale. Sure it sounds good and I can sing it just fineQUOTE]

if you can sing it, that means its most likely tonal music. that means its in a key, wich has a scale of the notes that make up that key.. you just dont know what the key is..

thinking in tabs is a pretty bad habbit. i never really had that problem, i find tabs to be more trouble than good, unless its showing you a specific fingering- wich is usually harder to figure out from tabs than to just play around with it yourself.

if you dont want to take private lessons, start googling music theory stuff and reading it till you understand it. post questions here even, (or search them here/in google.) learning notes, intervals, triads, may seem rediculous at first but itll make you understand the way music is put together- thus making it easier, and making you better at it- and enjoy it more.

really it all comes down to what role music will play in your life. if its a small hobby, then i guess if your playing anything and enjoying it thats fine. (but learning more will make that less of a headache) if you intend to gig regularly and be in bands all the time, even just as a hobbyist- habbits like thinking C# and Db are the "exact same" pitch, is a terrible habbit. thinking in tabs, is far worse. thats like driving a car with 3 flat tires..

[hrodbert696]

I'm pretty noob and amateur, but I'll weigh in here. I think the real answer depends on what kind of musician you want to be.

Musical notation is certainly the high road, it's a universal code read by all trained musicians, it can be used to create the song from the notation alone, etc.

On the other hand, music existed for THOUSANDS of years without notation. We have no idea how the psalms were sung or what Roman or Greek music sounded like because there was no way at all to write it. The earliest efforts to record music in the ninth-century were just squiggles that told monks in choir which words to go up or down in pitch on.

Most folk-music traditions were totally by ear and oral tradition until quite recently. I don't remember who it was, but there was an old bluegrass fiddler and band leader whose signature line used to be, "Play it like it's wrote, boys!" -- the point being that NONE of it was "wrote."

So tablature is a kind of hybrid thing, and a product of the age of recording technology, rather like that early medieval notation -- you can't learn a song from a tab alone, let alone give it to a keyboardist to play, you have to listen to the song to know what to play, but there's a system of partial writing that helps you find where each note is on your instrument. It does what it does and it doesn't do any more. If that's enough for you, then I wouldn't stress over it. But if you want to go the high road, then yes -- do what everyone here has said and do the grunt work to learn notation.

Can I just add my own personal issue here? I learned to read musical notation playing sax. I partly just have a running barrier to reading bass music because I'm always catching myself misreading by a line (being used to treble clef), but I also have slower going because, unlike the sax (or piano, which I did a very little of) I have to figure out which of as many as four different places on my fretboard to use for that note! I suppose just practice is needed to overcome these speedbumps, but did anyone else have similar issues and how did you get through them?

[TL5]

Originally Posted by J.A. Raptor

Thanks for the pointers guys (so glad I found this website!); I know a hint or two of theory from time in choir but you can only pick up so much when your teacher/directors main concern is just getting the time and pitch right. This definitely helps out a lot.

That made me smile.

I know what you meant, but if you get the timing and pitch right, the rest is cake.

[James Judson]

Just do it. And do it some more. Then do it again. Do it by yourself. Do it with friends. Do it in your sleep. There is a reason most folks are not musicians. Everybody wants to but they are not up to the challenge. In a forum like this you will find guys that hate _______ and guys that love _______ (fill in the blanks). Learn it all. Five line staff opens a humongus library (Hendrix to Beethoven). Tab opens an awesome library (internet). Nashville number system (makes it easier to transpose into any key). Charts tickle the memory (whats the next verse, how does that bridge go). MTV (Eric Clapton shows me licks all the time). Music Theory allows you to communicate with other musicians (you already know some). Play by ear (if it sound good who cares what you call it).

Did I forget to say "Just Do It".

JJ

YMMV

[guroove]

IMO, if you start jamming people without understanding keys and chords, they are going to get pissed pretty quickly. It's the bass player's job to know what chord is happening at all times, just as much as it's your job to know where the One falls rhythmically. I went to an audition once where I started to ask about chords, and the guitarist had no clue. I just packed up my bass right then and there.