Time signatures?

[count_funkula]

I have asked this before but never understood the answer so here goes again.

What does the bottom number represent in a time signature?
I understand how to count everything with a 4 on the bottom but what about 6/8?

[merlin]

Good Call dude, i would like to know as well...

Merls

[RAM]

The top number, as you probably already know, indicates how many beats per measure. The bottom number refers to what note gets the beat. For example, in 3/4 time, the quarter note gets the beat, and there are 3 beats per measure.

In 6/8 time, the eighth note gets the beat.

[Phil Smith]

Top number, the number of beats in a measure. Bottom number, the type of note that gets 1 beat.

Phil

[Erick Lam]

To add confusion: the note doesn't always "get the beat". For exemple, in 6/8, the eight notes are usually grouped by three and there are two beats per measure. It would sound like triplets of eight notes in a 2/4 measure.

To be more accurate you'd have to say that the top number tells how many of the said note (bottom number) there are in a measure.

How you count the measure (beat) is up to the composer. Say you have 9/8, you can group the eight notes by three and have 3 beats per measure or group them 3-2-2-2 and have 4 beats, though the first is longer than the others.

A side note: on older music scores, instead of putting a number at the bottom, you'd have the actual note symbol.

[count_funkula]

Thanks for your replies but it still makes no sense to me.

I have a drum machine and I can set the time signature of the click track 6/8, 3/4, 4/4, or whatever but I still don't understand how the bottom number is affecting the beat.

When set to 6/4 it plays 6 beats per measure with the loud click on beat 1. If I set it to 6/8 it plays 6 beats per measure with the loud click on beat 1 and 4.

What does beats 1 and 4 have to do with the 8?

Arrrrrggggghhhhhh!!!!!

[Oysterman]

That's the way you usually play 6/8: ONE two three FOUR five six. 3/4 is mathematically the same but is played in the feel of ONE two three ONE two three. Uh... I guess that just confuses you even more. Wait, give me a minute, I'll make a couple of MIDI files...

EDIT: Made two short MIDIs (played at the same tempo). I do hope I got it somewhat right.

<A HREF="http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md0per/three_four.mid">3/4 example</A>
<A HREF="http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md0per/six_eights.mid">6/8 example</A>

[JimK]

Originally posted by count_funkula
When set to 6/4 it plays 6 beats per measure with the loud click on beat 1. If I set it to 6/8 it plays 6 beats per measure with the loud click on beat 1 and 4.
What does beats 1 and 4 have to do with the 8?

Oysterman's post is right on-
In 6/8, "1" & "4" are the pulse; in 4/4, "1'" & "3" are the pulse.
Practice tapping out the 6/8 clave, using both of your hands...
/123456/123456/

Again, the pulse is on "1" & "4"(the bold numbers)in both bars; the clave is the underlined numbers.
So, in short, the clave is on /1-3-5-6/2-4-6/ and the pulse is on /1-4/1-4/
BOTH hands "tap" together on bar's 1 "1".

What gets "cool" is when 6/8 is played over 4/4.
4/4=/1&2&3&4&/1&2&3&4&/1&2&3&4&/1...etc

"6/8"=/12345612/34561234/56123456/1...etc

So, the "pattern" takes 3 bars to start over...right?

[count_funkula]

Thanks for the MIDI files Oysterman but I still don't get it.

JimK, that was a good try but I don't know what you mean by the 1 & 4 being the pulse in 6/8 and
1 & 3 in 4/4.

Also, what in the world is a clave?

[Stu]

count_funkula, try this..

The upper figure show how many beats in the bar, and the lower figure the value of each beat, so if the time sig is 2/4 there are two crotchet beats (or quarter notes) in each bar. if the time sig is 3/2 then there will be three Minim beats ( or half notes ) in each bar.
Also, 3/8 means three quaver beats in a bar, 3/4 three crotchet beats in a bar, 4/4 four crotchet beats in a bar, 2/2 two minim beats in a bar.
6/8 six quaver beats in a bar.

What JimK was telling you was how to count it out, if you use his guidelines for 6/8 it will help you to feel the beat for 6/8 the bold notes are ones that you would say / clap with a greater emphasis.

If you have a metronome or click you can work along with it will help you keep a steady time. It would also help if you were familiar with note values as compared to each other for example, 1 crotchet is worth 2 quavers, it is also worth 4 semi quavers. I won't say anymore than that but a basic theory book will guide you. It will all help towards your counting time.

[Phil Smith]

Originally posted by count_funkula
Thanks for the MIDI files Oysterman but I still don't get it.

JimK, that was a good try but I don't know what you mean by the 1 & 4 being the pulse in 6/8 and
1 & 3 in 4/4.

Also, what in the world is a clave?

Yo Count,

For the 6/8 thing and the pulse being on 1 & 4, think of a waltz, 123, 123, 123, 123... or 123, 456, 123, 456... The emphasis is on the 1 and the 4 if you count to six or always on the one if you count to three.

As for the pulse being on the 1 & 3 for 4/4, I'm not sure if I agree with that. Typically with dance music you're snapping your finger on beat 2 and on beat 4 in unision with the snare drum as well as putting your foot down on beat 2 and 4.


Phil