Timing question.

Bluez Dawg · #1 07-05-2006, 09:26 PM

Ok I think I had a epiphany about timing and I want to see if I am right. Let me give you an example. Hi hat would be the starting of the beat. then going in to the beat would be the snare drum then the beat it self then the kick drum ( down beat ) am I right? So if I want to in prove my timing it would be Hi hat snare "beat" xtimes then kick drum then it starts over either in a new riff or the same riff.

tplyons · #2 07-05-2006, 09:41 PM

What?

What happens on what beat?

Are you saying hi-hats on the 8ths, snare on the and of 1?

Bluez Dawg · #3 07-05-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tplyons

What?

What happens on what beat?

Are you saying hi-hats on the 8ths, snare on the and of 1?

Where did I say 8th I must have missed it? I am not good at my timing yet. like for example hi hat starting of the up beat ( I.e 1 2 3 and 4 ) as 4 would be the kick drum no? or go back to my trusty ole metronome for a while?

tplyons · #4 07-05-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluez Dawg

Where did I say 8th I must have missed it? I am not good at my timing yet. like for example hi hat starting of the up beat ( I.e 1 2 3 and 4 ) as 4 would be the kick drum no? or go back to my trusty ole metronome for a while?

From what you're saying, you think the 1, 2, 3, and 4 are upbeats?

These are generally considered downbeats. Downbeats are the 1, 2, 3, and 4. Subdividing, the and comes between each.

Counting out loud, it's ONE and TWO and THREE and FOUR and (rinse and repeat)... the down beat, the ones, twos, threes and fours, are where the metrinome clicks.

Precious · #5 07-05-2006, 09:50 PM

Whoa, maths!

Bluez Dawg · #6 07-05-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tplyons

From what you're saying, you think the 1, 2, 3, and 4 are upbeats?

These are generally considered downbeats. Downbeats are the 1, 2, 3, and 4. Subdividing, the and comes between each.

Counting out loud, it's ONE and TWO and THREE and FOUR and (rinse and repeat)... the down beat, the ones, twos, threes and fours, are where the metrinome clicks.

Ok so ona drum machine if you have the pattern hi hat ( 2x the hi hat 2 is One the snare would be Two and the down beat would be three and four? Am I correct? or should I go back to my metronome?

tplyons · #7 07-05-2006, 09:56 PM

I don't really follow what you're saying...

Are you trying to get a "boom, chick, boom boom, chick" type beat going? Pretty standard rock beat?

That's this:

Code:

        1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
Hi Hat -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Snare  -----x-------x---
Kick   -x-------x-x-----

Sonorous · #8 07-05-2006, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluez Dawg

Ok I think I had a epiphany about timing and I want to see if I am right. Let me give you an example. Hi hat would be the starting of the beat. then going in to the beat would be the snare drum then the beat it self then the kick drum ( down beat ) am I right? So if I want to in prove my timing it would be Hi hat snare "beat" xtimes then kick drum then it starts over either in a new riff or the same riff.

THE typical/standard 4/4 drum beat is going to have the hi hat on all four beats. The kick will be on 2, while the snare is 4. The snare and kick can be reversed if desired.

HH -> HH+K -> HH -> HH+S
.1...&...2.....&...3...&....4

Like that. I think this is what you're asking about.

Bluez Dawg · #9 07-05-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonorous

THE typical/standard 4/4 drum beat is going to have the hi hat on all four beats, as well as the &s (8th notes). The kick will be on 2, while the snare is 4. The snare and kick can be reversed if desired.

Like that. If you're asking about 1/4 notes, then just hit the kick or snare without hitting th e HH at the same time. This sounds kind of empty though.

What about old times bluez beat?

Bluez Dawg · #10 07-05-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonorous

THE typical/standard 4/4 drum beat is going to have the hi hat on all four beats. The kick will be on 2, while the snare is 4. The snare and kick can be reversed if desired.

HH -> HH+K -> HH -> HH+S
.1...&...2.....&...3...&....4

Like that. I think this is what you're asking about.

What if it's hh-k hh-snare?

Sonorous · #11 07-05-2006, 10:25 PM

You mean like a shuffle or something? Its all about the swing and the heavily accented 2 & 4.

Usually you'll swing the hi-hat beats while lightly hitting the snare at the same time you hit each hi-hat, then on each 2 & 4 you'll smack the snare pretty hard and stomp on the kick at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluez Dawg

What if it's hh-k hh-snare?

You can do that too. It just sounds different. Thats what they call funk.

Bluez Dawg · #12 07-05-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonorous

You mean like a shuffle or something? I'm not really sure how I could explain it with text. Its all about the swing and the heavily accented 2 & 4.

Usually you'll swing the hi-hat beats while lightly hitting the snare at the same time you hit each hi-hat, then on each 2 & 4 you'll smack the snare pretty hard and stomp on the kick at the same time.

Gee it sounds liek I should be a dang drummer then a bass player lol. and I think I under stand and I know now why peopel said I suck WOOHOO. I may not suck any more.

Bluez Dawg · #13 07-06-2006, 02:11 PM

Ok I have another example I like to ask about. What about this Root note on the kick drum and then your other notes on the snare ans hi hat. Would that be considered good timing>? ( and btw it's a real drum pattern that the digitech bp has built in )

Sonorous · #14 07-06-2006, 04:08 PM

You can put bass notes pretty much wherever you'd like if it sounds good. Having good timing isn't always about putting your notes directly on top of the drum hits. Syncing with the kick drum sounds pretty good most of the time, but isn't necessary.

Good time is about playing in time with everyone. As long as you put your note in the same place each measure, and don't move that note around... thats what timing is about. And don't forget TEMPO. Thats important.

Kickin'Fruit · #15 07-07-2006, 08:44 AM

And Gary, on the Kick Drum, come come, on the kick drum!

tZer · #16 07-07-2006, 08:55 AM

As a general rule in blues/rock - ONE is the down beat. If the drummer is choosing to be very 'straight' with his interpretation, then he will be clearly defining ONE. That usually means a solid KICK DRUM hit right on beat ONE.

Now a drummer may be choosing to invert the feel - by holding OFF of the ONE with his bass drum and accenting another beat for effect, but that never changes where ONE is - and ONE is the down-beat - and you always need to know where ONE is. If you and the drummer are providing an interesting interpretation of a beat by NOT accenting the down-beat, that is totally cool. BUT you still need to provide a clear indication of where the ONE is - even if that clear direction comes in the form of the abscence of an accent. Sometimes space can be equally effective in 'accenting' a part of a beat. It can be 'notorious by it's abscence' - dig it?

As a bass player, you should always be keenly aware of where the ONE is. In some phrasing where folks 'play across the bars', ONE can get deceptive. You, the bass player, are responsible (along with your drummer) to always know exactly where ONE is and be able to show the rest of the band.

So, your questions can sort of be answered regarding specific drum approaches, but in general keep your head around the ONE/DOWN-BEAT.

Bluez Dawg · #17 07-07-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonorous

You can put bass notes pretty much wherever you'd like if it sounds good. Having good timing isn't always about putting your notes directly on top of the drum hits. Syncing with the kick drum sounds pretty good most of the time, but isn't necessary.

Good time is about playing in time with everyone. As long as you put your note in the same place each measure, and don't move that note around... thats what timing is about. And don't forget TEMPO. Thats important.

That is some of the most horible advice I have seen anyone give to another person. Of corse you want to be dead on with the drummer. or it will throw off the whole group.

iplaybassguitar · #18 07-07-2006, 08:57 AM

that question is totally unanswerable unless we know what song your listening to...if your talking about an average rock drumbeat in 4/4, then the bass drum is beat 1 and 3 and the snare is beats 2 and 4 and the hi hat or ride or whatever is on the 8ths.

this would totally change though if its like a jazz song in 6/8 or ever if its a jazz beat in 4/4.

so...erm... whatchu talkin bout bluez dawg

Bluez Dawg · #19 07-07-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iplaybassguitar

that question is totally unanswerable unless we know what song your listening to...if your talking about an average rock drumbeat in 4/4, then the bass drum is beat 1 and 3 and the snare is beats 2 and 4 and the hi hat or ride or whatever is on the 8ths.

this would totally change though if its like a jazz song in 6/8 or ever if its a jazz beat in 4/4.

so...erm... whatchu talkin bout bluez dawg

More of a blues beat then any thign were talking about. and were talking about timing

Josh Raines · #20 07-07-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluez Dawg

That is some of the most horible advice I have seen anyone give to another person. Of corse you want to be dead on with the drummer. or it will throw off the whole group.

Derek, whats the point of attacking someone like that, his advice isn't bad at all and since usually you are the one getting made fun of and know what it feels like you shouldn't be poking fun at others.