Tips for finding a perfect bass

[Red Devil 94]

I am looking to buy myself a bass after playing for a year or so. I have been using a Fender but it was not mine. I am now after my own bass but am on a limited budget. Can anyone recommend a good quality set up at a reasonable price? Thanks

[fearceol]

What amount is your budget ? In the absence of knowing this, I would advise trying out as many basses as possible within your budget. The one that feels right in your hands, and sounds good to your ears, is the bass for you. For a "good quality set up at a reasonable price," I'd recommend the G&L Tribute range.

[MooseLumps]

1. Try before you buy. Go around and play everything on the wall at all the local shops, preferably through multiple rigs. Fiddle with the knobs. Look at the neck and back. Inspect the bridge. Just generally take stock of what makes one bass feel and sound different from another. Buy nothing at GC.
2. When you have found a good fit, buy it used from the internet. There are good ways and bad ways to do this. Beware of the eBay bass that is 200 less than the same model elsewhere... It could have a pox or something. Buy from a reputable dealer or someone with good feedback. The Talkbass classifieds are a great place to start. Have patience
3. Ask other musicians in the area who does good instrument repair/setup work in the area. Get your new bass setup with some new medium gauge strings by a pro, and it will go miles to helping you feel better about the bass you bought. Afterward, learn to do your own setup and maintenance and save some dough. Talkbass is a good place for that as well.
4. Beware G.A.S. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). You can do a lot with some basic equipment. Getting sucked into trading and upgrading a bass can lessen the fun of playing bass. As a wise someone once said, "Less eBay, More Mel-Bay."
5. Get lessons and practice daily if you can help it. You may never be Victor Wooten, but a good bass player with real knowledge and feel is a find.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by MooseLumps

"Less eBay, More Mel-Bay."

Great quote !

[St Drogo]

Originally Posted by MooseLumps

Go around and play everything on the wall at all the local shops, preferably through multiple rigs. Fiddle with the knobs. Look at the neck and back. Inspect the bridge.

(...)

When you have found a good fit, buy it used from the internet.

That's perhaps the best for your wallet, but this approach does make you a kind of a ****. IMHO.

[JTE]

I used to manage a guitar store, and I've found several things that are critical. First, is education before you go, second is looking at the specific bass you're buying.

So, spend a lot of time trying as many basses as you can get your hands on, in all price ranges. Start to learn what it is that you get (and don't get) as you spend more money. You need to learn the difference between playability issues caused by design choices or poor production, and those caused by poor set-up. If the action is higher than you like, that's NOT a reason to dismiss a bass. But if you consistently find that you like wider fingerboards, then a Jazz bass with its narrower neck probably won't be for you. Be able to distinguish poor set-up (saddles too high, nut not cut correctly, intonation settings off, truss rod not adjusted, etc.) and design considerations (jumbo versus small frets, fingerboard radius, neck dimensions, etc.).

By playing a lot of instruments in all price ranges you start to see the difference between well-made stuff (which is NOT necessarily associated with price, but there is a very rough correlation) and cheap stuff. This process also lets you learn about different pickups, electronics, neck shapes, etc. This is the background.

Now, I'm totally opposed to the "try some basses, decide what you like and buy one sight unseen" because with chunks of wood and metal, there simply ain't "another one just like it".

To inspect the bass you're ultimately buying my advice is this.

A. Play it unplugged- LISTEN to the body/neck's inherent sound. If its bright, twangy, honky, muffled, whatever that you don't like at all, that's going to annoy you everytime you play it, and it'll send you down an expensive and very likely fruitless path of "upgrading" it which will wind up costing you more than just getting what your ears tell you is the right bass. Note that I'm not saying it needs to sound like you want the amplified sound to be, but listen to the essential character of THIS chunk of wood and metal. At this point just get an over-all feel for the bass- does if feel comfortable (and not just with your fretting hand- does the body lay well? Does the neck want to fall away from you? Can you play it comfortably both standing and sitting? Are the controls in a place you can manipulate them easily?). Listen for frets that are buzzing due to being too low, uneven response across frets (a possible indicator of a loose fret), etc. Play a note on every string/fret combination with equal attack and listen for consistency- not particularly identical, but consistent.

B. Visually inspect it- look for obvious problems with wood, fit and finish, etc. Look closely at each fret to make sure it's firmly seated against the fingerboard, check to see how well the hardware is aligned (and note that on many basses the strings don't always pass exactly over the middle of the pole pieces of the PUPs, and that's not a problem most of the time), are the knobs firmly installed, etc. I also check the nut (fret each string at the third fret- the string should just barely clear the first fret- any higher and it simply MUST be recut). Check for fret sprout (the sharp ends of the frets protruding from the side of the fingerboard- it's common but inexcusable for any instrument over $500- they just didn't dry the wood enough before they fretted it).

C. Now plug it in to an amp you're familiar with, preferably one that doesn't color it too much. You want to hear the BASS not the amp/speakers/room. Again play every string/fret combination. Use each and every electronic control in every possible combination. Listen for how smoothly things change, how they interact, and feel how smooth the pots and/or switches are. See how it sounds with the controls set to a neutral setting- for most active basses that's with the EQ controls at the center point, for passive that's with the controls all dimed. Some instruments have characteristic quirks, so understand that- for example the early G&L MFD pickups are POWERFUL and the passive tone controls are cut-only. Those basses often work better with the controls cut back some. The original pre Ernie Ball StingRay had a weird active EQ that had boost and cut (some people assert the bass was boost only, but most credible resources indicate that it has some cut and a lot of boos) but no center detents because they weren't set up to boost and cut equally. The Peavey T-40 bass is single-coil with the tone controls wide open, but becomes a 'bucker as you roll the tone control down. Those things will color what you hear so be aware of them.

D. Inspect it carefully for how the neck is attached to the body, how solid that joint is. Look for paint chips around it which could indicate the neck has shifted. Also detune all the strings a good bit (at least two steps) and retune it. I want to know know how smoothly the tuners work and if there's any grinding, binding, or grittiness in them. While its detuned inspect the nut for how cleanly they cut the slots.

E. Look it over for cosmetics. They're not that important to me, and I'd rather have a brand new bass that sounds awesome and plays great than one that's pristine, never been touched. I don't want one from a sealed box unless I'm the one unsealing it before I buy. Again I'm buying THIS chunk of wood and metal. I'm not buying specs nor a catalog, so it's THIS bass.

F. Now as for price... Make sure you're talking to the sales people about exactly what you expect in the deal. Don't get confused about accessories, be precise. I say something like "How much for this Vintage Series '62 Jazz bass with the factory case, a set of DR Hi-Beams in 45/65/85/105, and a polish cloth, including tax?" That way I know what I'm getting instead of being surprised when they give me a used SKB case.

A lot of this depends on whether I'm looking at a used or new bass too. Lots of junk gets put on instruments that are called "upgrades" when they're useless to me. A BadAss bridge adds no value at all to me, so if they use it as a selling point, I'll counter with trying to get the price reduced for that. Also I'm a lot more forgiving of condition if it's used.

And, a lot of this stuff is only applicable if you're really serious about buying. There's a Highway 1 Jazz I'm kind of interested in here, but I'm not serious enough about buying it to go in an ask them to either set it up or let me do some tweaks to it. But if I had cash in hand today to buy it, I'd be in there with my allen keys and screwdrivers (which are better than the store's) to get it more comfortable to me and to make sure it's going to play in tune.

The more time you spend upfront, the less money you need to spend later.

John

[chad.planet]

Assuming that since you've only been playing for a year I recommend a 4,000$ stingray signature, seems reasonable.

[jmattbassplaya]

Squier CV's are the way to go, IMHO. They are great quality and really cheap, too.

But to expand on your question on how to find the perfect bass - My best advice (or at least this would of been the best advice for me) is to stick with one bass for two years and learn how to play that bass. At the same time, keep pushing yourself as hard as possible to learn all the technical gymnastics of playing bass. By doing this, you'll find what you love and hate about your particular bass and, more importantly, what you 'need' to have in any bass you may purchase in the future. It'll make finding the perfect one that much easier down the road.

[Joe Nerve]

I'm gonna offer a little different advice than everyone else here...

Since you're only playing a year, and asking the question you are, I'm going to assume you're somewhat lacking in skills and knowlege regarding bass. Checking out lots of basses could be great (and seems like sound advice), but it's more likely to be misleading. Unfortunately the only way you can really check out lots of basses is by visiting your local samash, guitar center, whatever - and you are then at the mercy of what the maintenance of the basses they have hanging. You can pick up a Warwick with dead strings an inch off the neck, then plug in $200 something or other with an awesome setup, brand new strings and think, "Damn! What's with these Warwick people. This peice of crap blows the Warwick away!" Also, if you've been playing a J bass for a year, you're going to naturally gravitate towards towards thinner necks, because they're naturally going to feel more comfortable. Same but opposite if you've been playing a P. My experience is that if you commit to any neck profile, you will eventually get used to it. While I know this means a big deal to some, I really thiink people just don't give basses with different neck profiles enough time to get comfortable with them.

Anyhow, given the above and the mistakes I made finding the sound and bass I was looking for I'd say do this. Find clips of bass sounds you love. Find out what basses those people are playing. THEN ask the people on TB for advice on getting that kind of sound. Most basses these days can be set up with great action, and as already mentioned, I believe you can used to any neck profile. Especially if you're new at it. Once you nail the sound you're looking for I'd say order one new from any of the big stores. You'll have a decent amount of time to check it out, if ya don't like it you can return it.

I should take back a little of my first statement and say by all means check out basses at stores. Just don't let that make the decision for you. What's hanging at the local GC can be incredibly misleading.

[ksandvik]

Someone does not really know what kind of bass they need until they've played for a couple of years. Start with something cheap but good, do not worry about brand names. Squier makes good basses.

[Red Devil 94]

Thanks for all the great advice I have noticed on the classifieds, a couple of G4's are on sale. Are these basses really any good?

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Someone does not really know what kind of bass they need until they've played for a couple of years. Start with something cheap but good, do not worry about brand names. Squier makes good basses.

I totally agree with this. Having a beginner go out and audition a bunch of basses is a pretty big waste of time as 1) he doesn't know what he wants to sound like and 2) he can't get that sound out of his fingers yet even if he knew what it was.

Get a squire. Learn to play it. As you get into playing, you will figure out what it is you really like and don't like and consequently end up with more basses anyway. (just like the rest of us)

I'd recommend a P-bass if you play standard blues based rock. It's a P-bass world lately. I dunno what's good for Metal and the like.

[tdub0199]

Did you like the loaner Fender that you have been playing? If so, Squier has a a Vintage Modified series and a Classic Vibe series, they are definitely worth checking into....

[Red Devil 94]

Originally Posted by tdub0199

Did you like the loaner Fender that you have been playing? If so, Squier has a a Vintage Modified series and a Classic Vibe series, they are definitely worth checking into....

It was a really nice bass yeah, I will look into those basses, thanks

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

Since you're only playing a year, and asking the question you are, I'm going to assume you're somewhat lacking in skills and knowlege regarding bass. Checking out lots of basses could be great (and seems like sound advice), but it's more likely to be misleading.

I agree with Joe. 1 year of playing is unlikely to be enough to educate your ear to the possibilities and limitations of any potential instrument.

So my suggestion is get a Squire or maybe SX P-bass or J-bass, have it set up, and stick with that for the immediate future.
If you can bring an experienced player along, they can steer you away from any garbage.
Why P-bass or J-bass? because they have a time tested sound that is good enuff for most genres of music.
After you've gigged for a while, have experience of how you sound in various situations, have heard other bassists live,
know the difference by ear between common basses ( P-bass, a J-bass and Stingray)
then you can apply your judgement well enough to approach your "perfect bass"

<rant>
this question gets asked fairly often by beginners, and people are quick to pile on all kinds of advice:
Try every bass in the store, through a bunch of rigs, listen to it unplugged first, bring your own amp in, try it at rehearsal first...all of which is valid if you already know what to listen for.
but I recall being new at bass, and any such advice would have been useless to me, because beginners don't know what to listen for.
Or rather, they haven't listened enough to have any reasonable comparison to judge what makes the sound they want-
is it the bass? the strings? the pickups? the amp? The EQ? I knew none of this when I started.
I think I was at it for at least 5 years before I felt confident enough to make an educated pick of an instrument.
</rant>

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by mambo4

<rant>
this question gets asked fairly often by beginners, and people are quick to pile on all kinds of advice:
Try every bass in the store, through a bunch of rigs, listen to it unplugged first, bring your own amp in, try it at rehearsal first...all of which is valid if you already know what to listen for.
but I recall being new at bass, and any such advice would have been useless to me, because beginners don't know what to listen for.
Or rather, they haven't listened enough to have any reasonable comparison to judge what makes the sound they want-
is it the bass? the strings? the pickups? the amp? The EQ? I knew none of this when I started.
I think I was at it for at least 5 years before I felt confident enough to make an educated pick of an instrument.
</rant>

I can see the point that you and others are making here. However, not everyone will have an experienced bass player to accompany them when they go to buy. In this case they will have to do some research on the net, first. After that, I cant see any other way except the "try out lots of basses within your budget" advice. If they like the feel and tone of bass "X" over basses "A" "B" "C" and "D" then is this not an educated guess for a novice ? You have to start somewhere. Later on when your knowledge and experience increases, you can upgrade if you so wish. It is obvious that a novice is not going to make an educated guess at the start, but he can use some other advice often given on TB when referring to playing in general.. i.e. "let your ears decide".

[slipitin]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Great quote !

So, so true...more time spent breaking in and getting to know one bass on a deep level is better than amassing a midlife crisis collection to post photos of.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by slipitin

So, so true...more time spent breaking in and getting to know one bass on a deep level is better than amassing a midlife crisis collection to post photos of.

I agree entirely, but human nature being what it is..

[Dondoh]

Wow! What a great, well thought out answer. Thanks.

Originally Posted by JTE

I used to manage a guitar store, and I've found several things that are critical. First, is education before you go, second is looking at the specific bass you're buying.

So, spend a lot of time trying as many basses as you can get your hands on, in all price ranges. Start to learn what it is that you get (and don't get) as you spend more money. You need to learn the difference between playability issues caused by design choices or poor production, and those caused by poor set-up. If the action is higher than you like, that's NOT a reason to dismiss a bass. But if you consistently find that you like wider fingerboards, then a Jazz bass with its narrower neck probably won't be for you. Be able to distinguish poor set-up (saddles too high, nut not cut correctly, intonation settings off, truss rod not adjusted, etc.) and design considerations (jumbo versus small frets, fingerboard radius, neck dimensions, etc.).

By playing a lot of instruments in all price ranges you start to see the difference between well-made stuff (which is NOT necessarily associated with price, but there is a very rough correlation) and cheap stuff. This process also lets you learn about different pickups, electronics, neck shapes, etc. This is the background.

Now, I'm totally opposed to the "try some basses, decide what you like and buy one sight unseen" because with chunks of wood and metal, there simply ain't "another one just like it".

To inspect the bass you're ultimately buying my advice is this.

A. Play it unplugged- LISTEN to the body/neck's inherent sound. If its bright, twangy, honky, muffled, whatever that you don't like at all, that's going to annoy you everytime you play it, and it'll send you down an expensive and very likely fruitless path of "upgrading" it which will wind up costing you more than just getting what your ears tell you is the right bass. Note that I'm not saying it needs to sound like you want the amplified sound to be, but listen to the essential character of THIS chunk of wood and metal. At this point just get an over-all feel for the bass- does if feel comfortable (and not just with your fretting hand- does the body lay well? Does the neck want to fall away from you? Can you play it comfortably both standing and sitting? Are the controls in a place you can manipulate them easily?). Listen for frets that are buzzing due to being too low, uneven response across frets (a possible indicator of a loose fret), etc. Play a note on every string/fret combination with equal attack and listen for consistency- not particularly identical, but consistent.

B. Visually inspect it- look for obvious problems with wood, fit and finish, etc. Look closely at each fret to make sure it's firmly seated against the fingerboard, check to see how well the hardware is aligned (and note that on many basses the strings don't always pass exactly over the middle of the pole pieces of the PUPs, and that's not a problem most of the time), are the knobs firmly installed, etc. I also check the nut (fret each string at the third fret- the string should just barely clear the first fret- any higher and it simply MUST be recut). Check for fret sprout (the sharp ends of the frets protruding from the side of the fingerboard- it's common but inexcusable for any instrument over $500- they just didn't dry the wood enough before they fretted it).

C. Now plug it in to an amp you're familiar with, preferably one that doesn't color it too much. You want to hear the BASS not the amp/speakers/room. Again play every string/fret combination. Use each and every electronic control in every possible combination. Listen for how smoothly things change, how they interact, and feel how smooth the pots and/or switches are. See how it sounds with the controls set to a neutral setting- for most active basses that's with the EQ controls at the center point, for passive that's with the controls all dimed. Some instruments have characteristic quirks, so understand that- for example the early G&L MFD pickups are POWERFUL and the passive tone controls are cut-only. Those basses often work better with the controls cut back some. The original pre Ernie Ball StingRay had a weird active EQ that had boost and cut (some people assert the bass was boost only, but most credible resources indicate that it has some cut and a lot of boos) but no center detents because they weren't set up to boost and cut equally. The Peavey T-40 bass is single-coil with the tone controls wide open, but becomes a 'bucker as you roll the tone control down. Those things will color what you hear so be aware of them.

D. Inspect it carefully for how the neck is attached to the body, how solid that joint is. Look for paint chips around it which could indicate the neck has shifted. Also detune all the strings a good bit (at least two steps) and retune it. I want to know know how smoothly the tuners work and if there's any grinding, binding, or grittiness in them. While its detuned inspect the nut for how cleanly they cut the slots.

E. Look it over for cosmetics. They're not that important to me, and I'd rather have a brand new bass that sounds awesome and plays great than one that's pristine, never been touched. I don't want one from a sealed box unless I'm the one unsealing it before I buy. Again I'm buying THIS chunk of wood and metal. I'm not buying specs nor a catalog, so it's THIS bass.

F. Now as for price... Make sure you're talking to the sales people about exactly what you expect in the deal. Don't get confused about accessories, be precise. I say something like "How much for this Vintage Series '62 Jazz bass with the factory case, a set of DR Hi-Beams in 45/65/85/105, and a polish cloth, including tax?" That way I know what I'm getting instead of being surprised when they give me a used SKB case.

A lot of this depends on whether I'm looking at a used or new bass too. Lots of junk gets put on instruments that are called "upgrades" when they're useless to me. A BadAss bridge adds no value at all to me, so if they use it as a selling point, I'll counter with trying to get the price reduced for that. Also I'm a lot more forgiving of condition if it's used.

And, a lot of this stuff is only applicable if you're really serious about buying. There's a Highway 1 Jazz I'm kind of interested in here, but I'm not serious enough about buying it to go in an ask them to either set it up or let me do some tweaks to it. But if I had cash in hand today to buy it, I'd be in there with my allen keys and screwdrivers (which are better than the store's) to get it more comfortable to me and to make sure it's going to play in tune.

The more time you spend upfront, the less money you need to spend later.

John