Tips on where to go from here?

[KingRazor]

So I've been playing bass for just over a year now. I have a basic concept of music theory. I know scales, arpeggios and chords. As far as chord progressions go I can at least play along with root notes, but I'd like to learn to do more.

I know how to read sheet music, although it doesn't matter much because I'm always playing off either tabs or chord sheets.

So far, I'm self taught. Haven't had much outside instruction. Most of what I know has come from books, online videos, and tips from friends.

Unfortunately I don't have the benefit of having other people to play with. My brother plays a little guitar but we don't know any of the same songs, and he doesn't really like to play with other people.

I feel like I'm stuck in a rut really. I know how to play scales but I don't know how to make them sound like music, they always just sound like scales. Playing root notes is boring, but I don't know how to make it more interesting without making it sound off.

Anyway, got any advice?

[5string5fingers]

Best thing to do is take your scales,and play them along with simple beats. Drag notes out,make some staccato,ad a rhythmic mute in between. Try not to think of playing the scales as scales,with only one beat per note. Play notes multiple times,and remember you dont have to play every single note in the scale. Use your root,5th,7th,and octaves.

[mambo4]

I think the best thing to do in your shoes is start learning, breaking down and analyzing the lines you admire. Get the chords to the song, and examine how your heroes uses the chords tones and other notes to support the harmony, and what rhythmic choices are being made.

every time you learn a phrase or a riff, take time and think about it: What chord or chords is this riff gonna work over? what's the root of this chord? what other chord tones are being used in the riff? how are the non- chord tones being used?

Depending on your genere some lines may not lend themselves as well to this kind of analysis...but even identifying those kinds can be valuable.

It sound like you know enough to begin reverse engineering your favorite lines...

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I think the best thing to do in your shoes is start learning, breaking down and analyzing the lines you admire. Get the chords to the song, and examine how your heroes uses the chords tones and other notes to support the harmony, and what rhythmic choices are being made.

every time you learn a phrase or a riff, take time and think about it: What chord or chords is this riff gonna work over? what's the root of this chord? what other chord tones are being used in the riff? how are the non- chord tones being used?

Depending on your genere some lines may not lend themselves as well to this kind of analysis...but even identifying those kinds can be valuable.

It sound like you know enough to begin reverse engineering your favorite lines...

My favorite lines. That's funny.

I've actually heard very, very few bass lines that I actually like. The vast majority of the music I listen to has overly simple bass parts. That being said, I'll take your advice and try to analyze the few I do like.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

I feel like I'm stuck in a rut really. I know how to play scales but I don't know how to make them sound like music, they always just sound like scales. Playing root notes is boring, but I don't know how to make it more interesting without making it sound off. Anyway, got any advice?

Instead of the 7 note scales or just root or R-5 try chord tones:
4/4 time
C = R-3-5-3
C7 = R-3-5-b7
Cmaj7 = R-3-5-7
Cm = R-b3-5-b3
Cm7 = R-b3-5-b7
Cdim = R-b3-b5
C/G = ignore the C and do the G R-3-5-3.
Anything fancier that 7ths you don't have room for.

Up and back down works ---- R-3-5-3-8-7-6-5

Pentatonic will give you three of the chord's tones and two safe passing notes. Change the pentatonic as the chords change.

Major pentatonic R-1-2-3-5-6
Minor Pentatonic R-b3-4-5-b7

Should give you something new to work with.

Scales - the 1, 3 and 5 are the resolve notes. The 2, 4, 6 and 7 are the passing and tension notes. Do a 2-1, hear the resolve. 6-5 resolve. Don't start your phrase with the 1. Save the one's resolve for later in the phrase - like the end for example 3-5-6-5-1. http://www.javierarau.com/lesson-Ana...dy1Article.pdf

IMHO - Probably best to leave melodic phrases to the lead guitar and concentrate on chord tones.

Good luck.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Instead of the 7 note scales or just root or R-5 try chord tones:
4/4 time
C = R-3-5-3
C7 = R-3-5-b7
Cmaj7 = R-3-5-7
Cm = R-b3-5-b3
Cm7 = R-b3-5-b7
Cdim = R-b3-b5
C/G = ignore the C and do the G R-3-5-3.
Anything fancier that 7ths you don't have room for.

Up and back down works ---- R-3-5-3-8-7-6-5

Pentatonic will give you three of the chord's tones and two safe passing notes. Change the pentatonic as the chords change.

Major pentatonic R-1-2-3-5-6
Minor Pentatonic R-b3-4-5-b7

Should give you something new to work with.

Scales - the 1, 3 and 5 are the resolve notes. The 2, 4, 6 and 7 are the passing and tension notes. Do a 2-1, hear the resolve. 6-5 resolve. Don't start your phrase with the 1. Save the one's resolve for later in the phrase - like the end for example 3-5-6-5-1. http://www.javierarau.com/lesson-Ana...dy1Article.pdf

IMHO - Probably best to leave melodic phrases to the lead guitar and concentrate on chord tones.

Good luck.

I know my arpeggios

I like what you said about the resolve notes. I never thought about it that way. I guess my ear has been doing that all along, but I never consciously realized that. Thanks for that tip.

[Ubersheist]

Here's some different scales that you can play that you might not be thinking of:

You can also do interval scales. Play the root, then 3rd, then the 2nd then the 4th, etc.

Then move onto different intervals. 1-6, 2-7, 3-8, 4-9, etc. Then move onto arpeggiated scales, and even change up the order. Play the 8-3-5, 9-4-6, 10-5-7, etc.

Remember, always play with a metronome, too.

As far as making the scales sound musical, play along with records, but don't play the original basslines (in addition to learning the bass lines you like). Eventually, you'll start hearing stuff you like.

Also remember that not all bass lines really follow scales or proper music theory. A good example is a whole lot of funk bass lines. They'll often really dice it up. For example, in a song in A7, they might make a run that'll play on the root, followed by the 10th (C#) and the 10th (C), and then also make runs from the 5th (E), flat 5th (D sharp), 4th (D), the 3rd (C#), flat 3rd (C) and then back to the root.

There's a million things to play and a million ways to play them. If you're still bored, work on your stage presence, show, and being a performer, not just a bass player, or work on your song writing.

[Ubersheist]

Oh yeah... don't be afraid to play boring lines. Often, it's what makes the song sound better. You may not enjoy it as much, but it's WAY better to underplay a song then to overplay.

Really good, pro level bass players know that if the song has a dull bass line, that's a prime opportunity to work on things like your stage show. You could also just get into the groove of the song and be a part of the crowd diggin' on the tune. If you can't dig on the tune (if you can get past the fact that the bass line might be dull), then you and your band maybe shouldn't be playing it.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Oh yeah... don't be afraid to play boring lines. Often, it's what makes the song sound better. You may not enjoy it as much, but it's WAY better to underplay a song then to overplay.

Really good, pro level bass players know that if the song has a dull bass line, that's a prime opportunity to work on things like your stage show. You could also just get into the groove of the song and be a part of the crowd diggin' on the tune. If you can't dig on the tune (if you can get past the fact that the bass line might be dull), then you and your band maybe shouldn't be playing it.

There are some songs where I play just root notes and that honestly sounds best. So I know that sometimes, simpler is better. But, especially when it comes to my own stuff, I want to be a little more creative than that.

Thanks for the scale advice. I appreciate you guys' input.

[JimmyM]

knowing how to read ALWAYS matters, even if you don't use it a lot now. i strongly suggest keeping that up...reading gigs almost always pay better than non reading gigs. plus it gives you a deeper understanding of music.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

I know my arpeggios

Can you play a walking line and start on any chord tone, play 4 beats and go to the next chords closest tone? Do you know the substitutions? C=Ami or Emi - or G7=Db7 etc? knowing them and using them are different ballgames.

[santucci218]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

My favorite lines. That's funny.

I've actually heard very, very few bass lines that I actually like. The vast majority of the music I listen to has overly simple bass parts. That being said, I'll take your advice and try to analyze the few I do like.

Sounds to me like you can play the music you used to listen to before you were enlightened as to what goes into making music. Maybe time to step up and start listening to some more interesting bands? What kind of music do you like now? Name a few bands, and maybe we can suggest something like that, but a little more interesting.

[Chris K]

Find yourself a band. You're ready.

[KingRazor]

@JimmyM: Good point. I'll make sure I'm prepared for when the time comes that I'll need to read for something.

@Billnc: Well, considering I only kind of understood what you just said there...I guess I don't know as much as I thought. When you said "Ami" are you saying A minor? Isn't that written Am?

@santucci218: Write now I'm mostly into Post-harcore. Bands like Saosin and The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. Although recently I've heard some Dream Theater stuff. While I don't care for their style of music, I love John Myung's bass lines.

@ChrisK: Hopefully I'll be able to play on my church's worship team someday soon.

[Billnc]

Regarding Am and Ami yes they are the same thing. There's a lot of cool things you can do with the chord tones you may want to look into. Big help for soloing lines and creating some interest, rather than run the same chord tones or worse just running scales. In a year or two you can acquire quite a bit of knowledge, but it's putting the stuff to practical use that is next.

The better you can solo on bass, the better you can plod away plonking roots.

Good luck, you seem to have a great attitude!

[ericw]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

The vast majority of the music I listen to has overly simple bass parts.

I think this is an obvious problem. Where to go from here? Start listening to music that has more interesting bass.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by ericw

I think this is an obvious problem. Where to go from here? Start listening to music that has more interesting bass.

It's been an interesting challenge so far. Two bands I definitely like for their bass are Rush and Dream Theater.

[LM Bass]

Might be time to get a good teacher? Here's a great on-line resource for you as well:
http://playbassnow.com/

[Minotauros]

I'm in about the same place as the o.p., though I've been at bass a lot shorter time, only since last December. But I've been at guitard for 2 1/2 years, so the chords, theory and fretboard are not new. Though the feel of it is, being longer stretches between frets. It's a matter of practice and feel.

I've had the same thoughts as the o.p. about where to go from here. I don't play scales for scales' sake. Not when I've already been able to create a bass line for a song that as it turns out is almost exactly the same as on the published score when I got to see it. And those usually always happen to be the root note with the occasional 3, or b3 and/or 5.

Right or wrong, I never played scales because I'm a rhythm, not lead or solo guitardist. Can I tell you what notes makes up a particular scale? Yes. Can I transpose? Yes (though I need paper and pencil). Can I work out chord triads and 7ths? Yes.

OK, so having promoted myself and blown my own horn, my question is really (this isn't a judgment, just a genuine question I have from things I've read) "Doesn't anyone practice a song, or does everyone just wing it and improvise as they're playing?" Or is it just my impression?

If I'm going to play, I'm going to experiment, arrange and settle on it well before I start playing, especially with a band (as if I'm there yet ), and I'm going to have it down cold, practice it with the band, and make sure it works for everyone, then maybe back to the drawing board. Or am I off-base?

[Billnc]

I practice songs for performance. Have to learn a lot of them all the time. I also use them to study. But...most practice time is spent stealing some licks for jazz soloing, chord tone exercises through cycles etc. and reading. End of the practice routine is applying what I'm working on.

Oh I've never been handed a scale chart. I've been handed lots of chord charts. This is perhaps what most people should really be working on. Being able to read chord charts, ANY chord chart and learn the chords to songs on the fly (faking) is far better than spending time on the Persian scale, something I've learned and never used.