Tired of messing around and frustrated

turbo chicken · #1 06-24-2010, 09:52 PM

Okay short background... as a kid i played upright at school for 2 years... i learned to read but that don't mean squat cause i forgot. Well kind of i can still tell you the notes on the bass clef... but applying that to the instrument i know is just gonna take practice!

I have messed around since January... i picked up a bass and practice amp. started noodling around picking up things off studybass.com ... i made the mistake of just going thru the lessons. Sure i read them and played the exercises and some of it has stuck. Like what a root, octave, 5th 7th etc... and I IV V blues progression ...

i feel like all i've learned at this point is "patterns" i know they are note patterns (not finger patterns) but in my head they are nothing more than finger patterns.

someone is gonna say "take lessons" well i had a lesson scheduled... but the budget after moving into a new house is on lockdown for a few more months. I put off lessons cause we were saving for a house now i can't take them cause were not comfortable with the expenses yet. So lessons are out of the question at this point.

i've come to the conclusion i need to just go buy a book (i can afford a one time purchase of a book) and start all over ... and i feel like i've basically wizzed away the last 6 months ...

im just frustrated and needed to rant ... and say poor me and

to get some attention i guess...

i was gonna ask for suggestions but I really know what i need to do... start from the beginning and take it slow actually learn the notes on the whole fretboard and read some simple music.

actually that's it ... i just looked at my bass and said what's that note on the 8th fret ... i think i know what they are (across the strings) but not 100% ... How can i apply any of that theory if i don't know the notes on the fretboard. If i need to play C major triad which is C,E,G (see took me a few seconds to figure out the notes... i knew the pattern but not the notes) i should be able to play that thing all over the fingerboard.

#1 learn notes on the fretboard (ill search talkbass for suggestions on how to in a few)

thanks for your help guys ... if i didn't have a place to do this I wouldn't have been able to work this out in my head... it helps to write stuff out... i feel stupid just doing it in a journal.

peaceoutside

TC

KingRazor · #2 06-24-2010, 10:48 PM

I feel like I'm kind of in the same boat. My problem isn't with not knowing the notes on the fretboard though. My problem is applying things such as the circle of fifths and figuring out keys based on the chords in them. Guess that's just memorization though.

turbo chicken · #3 06-24-2010, 11:33 PM

your a step further than i am... but far as theory i think Intervals and memorizing all 12 is the first step since scales and chords built upon intervals... if you don't know your intervals by heart it's going to be that much harder to figure out the groups of intervals that make up those scales and chords... lol ... all the interaction and how you use chords to move between the keys/modes thru a song.... well when i start writing songs i figure it'll some with practice....

some of it's kind of making sense now...

to read music memorize the bass clef, rythm (got that already cause of music background) but to apply it to the bass efficiently i have to know where the notes are on the instrument.

to understand theory first have to learn intervals as they are the building blocks of the scales and chords we are playing ... how they interact with eachother and application is a whole different monster i can't even see at the moment lol...

good luck razor... baby steps man baby steps ... we all want to know it all now...

PJMiDi · #4 06-24-2010, 11:39 PM

http://mrlamius.blogspot.com/2008/11...fretboard.html for fretnote chart

tobie · #5 06-25-2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo chicken

i feel like all i've learned at this point is "patterns"

Nothing to scoff at - it's something you needed to to in any event...

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo chicken

I put off lessons cause we were saving for a house now ... i've come to the conclusion i need to just go buy a book

Well done. You've got your priorities right. Try to get involved in a different type of 'structured' learning which is much cheaper. A book is a good idea, but only one of your options. How about on-line instruction or a good course. I only have experience with bassguitarsecrets (see www.bassguitarsecrets.com for info) which includes stacks of instruction on the 'net on an ongoing basis, but I'm sure there are other many other excellent ones too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo chicken

How can i apply any of that theory if i don't know the notes on the fretboard. If i need to play C major triad which is C,E,G (see took me a few seconds to figure out the notes... i knew the pattern but not the notes)

Finding the root note (firstly) and playing the pattern is the battle 99% won. Everything else will come with time. In fact, this is enough to get involved in a band - even if you just attend their practice sessions. If you really want to exchange frustrations for self-satisfaction, that's your next step...

James Judson · #6 06-25-2010, 01:02 AM

Put down the music sheets, books etc and turn on the radio and jam along. After an hour of that go get your books and spend another hour studying them. Do this every day and your book learning will start to make sense with your jamming.

Jamming will train your ears and fingers and make you a better player all around.

Book learning will allow you to understand the music so that you can communicate with other musicians and see how the music relates to itself.

Sounds like your doing to much book learning (not all bad). The book will tell you a scale and put you in a box that is hard to get out of. If you study Beethoven for example you will find most of his pieces use every note (yes all the sharps and flats to). Think about it for a second, when a slide guitar plays that note and slides to another he is not only playing every note but every frequency in between every note.

Best practise is with other musicans. Good luck on your journey. It is a slow and tedious one for sure.

KingRazor · #7 06-25-2010, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Judson

Put down the music sheets, books etc and turn on the radio and jam along. After an hour of that go get your books and spend another hour studying them. Do this every day and your book learning will start to make sense with your jamming.

Jamming will train your ears and fingers and make you a better player all around.

Book learning will allow you to understand the music so that you can communicate with other musicians and see how the music relates to itself.

Sounds like your doing to much book learning (not all bad). The book will tell you a scale and put you in a box that is hard to get out of. If you study Beethoven for example you will find most of his pieces use every note (yes all the sharps and flats to). Think about it for a second, when a slide guitar plays that note and slides to another he is not only playing every note but every frequency in between every note.

Best practise is with other musicans. Good luck on your journey. It is a slow and tedious one for sure.

Too bad some of us can't play by ear worth crap.

Eminentbass · #8 06-25-2010, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Too bad some of us can't play by ear worth crap.

Nobody, not even those born with the potential for a good ear, starts out with the ability to just jam along to something. Coupled with learning to understand theory, sitting down with a song a few bars at a time, for as long as it takes, is one of the best ear training methods around. It might wear out the pause/rewind buttons on your machine but it has it's benefits over time

MalcolmAmos · #9 06-25-2010, 06:03 AM

Few words on patterns. Nothing wrong with recognizing patterns - there are patterns all through out music. The important thing is to know how to use them.

I'm a pattern guy, knowing how to place my major scale and then playing the degrees (intervals) of the pattern I want is what I do. Knowing acceptable patterns lets me jam with confidence. I know what chord progression patterns will work and how to gather my chord tones from within "my pattern". Grabbing a pentatonic is a piece of cake.

Problem I run into is I know all my patterns as scale degrees, i.e. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 (Major Pentatonic) or 1, b3, 4, #4, 5, b7 (blues scale) -- but am not conscious of the note name. So all my patterns have done little to help me when reading.

However, I do Country and good luck finding bass clef on Country. Lead sheet and fake chord are every where but very little bass clef sheet music.

PSPookie · #10 06-25-2010, 06:12 AM

Get out of the house and play with other musicians. You will improve much faster and you will start to figure out what parts of music theory are most relevant to your goals.

Also, IMO/IME there's nothing wrong with patterns. The way I see it, patterns on the fingerboard are simple the practical application of the theory in your books. To me, the patterns make the theory make more sense and vice versa. Plus, knowing the patterns will allow you to transpose on the fly.

whitedk57 · #11 06-25-2010, 07:03 AM

Yes, get out and play.

tobie · #12 06-26-2010, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eminentbass

Nobody, not even those born with the potential for a good ear, starts out with the ability to just jam along to something. Coupled with learning to understand theory, sitting down with a song a few bars at a time, for as long as it takes, is one of the best ear training methods around. It might wear out the pause/rewind buttons on your machine but it has it's benefits over time

++1. I never buy a CD/DVD player unless it has an A-B repeat function and L/R channel selection. It's a major help during practice sessions.

JimmyM · #13 06-26-2010, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSPookie

Get out of the house and play with other musicians. You will improve much faster and you will start to figure out what parts of music theory are most relevant to your goals.

Also, IMO/IME there's nothing wrong with patterns. The way I see it, patterns on the fingerboard are simple the practical application of the theory in your books. To me, the patterns make the theory make more sense and vice versa. Plus, knowing the patterns will allow you to transpose on the fly.

patterns are fine to start with, but they can get you into trouble if you rely on them. sooner or later you'll end up somewhere on the neck where you can't use your familiar patterns and you'll be lost. knowing the notes will greatly help you bail yourself out of that predicament.