Tone Question (re Stefan Lessard-DMB & Marcus Johnson Bass Player?)

[Snerek]

hey guys..

currently on my bass rig i do not have any pedals or effects, just my svt stack and my svt 4 pro! i love the tone i get out of it, but its not what it could be.. i know it could be better..

i'm looking for a deep fat tone, but still with punchy highs..

if anyone is familiar with the DMB live dvd/cd Listener Supported stefan's tone on that show is great. Also, the Marcus Johnson live dvd there is a song called "docs groove" and the bass players tone is amazing.. i've seen the dvd and i'm pretty sure he's rocking a fretless but i cant tell what colorful effects he has on there..


i was thinking about buying a DOD envelope filter, i read as thread on here and a lot of guys suggested it as a good buy.. i would use it in 2 ways..

first, turn it on but a very light setting so it gets that low end tone with a "round, hollow" type feel.. (its hard to put it words)


and 2nd, crank it up and get some cool synth type stuff out of it..




what do you guys think about what i've described? any suggestions? i've also thought about getting a octave pedal

[JimmyM]

Don't buy pedals looking to improve your basic tone. That amp of yours is a fine amp and will deliver pretty much any clean tone that you want out of it. Pedals are for occasional sweetening.

[SuperDuck]

A lot of Lessard's tone comes from the Warwicks that he plays. (And his playing, of course!) What kind of bass are you sporting? I don't know if an envelope filter will necessarily give you what you are looking for.

[rockstarbassist]

Stefans setup at that show (to my memory, as I watch it ALL the time and again, LOVE his tone back then compared to now!) was:
Modulus Q5
Warwick Dolphin 1 Pro 4
each into their own API 512B preamp
Coleman Audio selector (to pick the bass/preamp of choice)
Aphex 661 expressor compressor
Meyer Sound CP-10 stereo parametric EQ
Eventide GTR4000 Ultra-Harmonizer
some sort of 1U distortion/OD unit i believe, but never have been able to find what out what it was
Crest 7001 power amp (1 underneath as a spare) into
2 15+horn Meyer Sound PA cabs
2 2x18 Meyer Sound subs

I'm guessing he had a clean and effected DI, and then he's got a compression mic on one of the 2x18 sub cabs.

I really wanted that setup (or close to it), and seriously that's gotta be close to $30K but probably more.

It's a lot more simple these days...
As of 2005 he had 4 Flea basses, each w/ their own wireless signal
Rane line mixer
Coleman Audio switcher to select what bass
Eventide Ultra Harmonizer
Ampeg SVT-II into 2 8x10 Ampeg fridges
Line out from SVT-II to an SVT-IV powering an Ampeg 2x15

He's had lots of setups, but yeah by far and away the Listener Supported one is my favorite, and that's why it's the most complicated.

[rockstarbassist]

And I've got the setup he used to record "Before These Crowded Streets" which is IMO the best tone he's had, even if it was a little buried.

That Thumb 6 was just, beyond words.

[rockstarbassist]

Here ya go. Found this on the net a while back, but can't remember where from.
-------------------------
"For "Crash" sessions Lessard played through a big Ampeg SVT setup, but for
"Streets" he went with a rack system he and his tech put together. From three
API 512B preamps (one for each instrument), the signal went into a Coleman
Audio switcher followed by a Demeter tube preamp, which went into a Blue Tube
distortion unit, an Eventide GTR 4000, a Meyer CP-10 parametric EQ, a Meyer
S1 processor and a Crest 7001 power amp. His cabinet setup (which he doubles
onstage) consists of a Meyer 650 powered-sub 2x18 and a Meyer MSL-2, which is
a 15+ tweeter. Stefan uses the distortion and flange sparingly."
---------------------

There was/is an API 512B (it's a mic preamp) on eBay right now still or recently, and the only thing preventing me from picking it up was the fact that it's made to go in those API "lunchbox" things and it'd be a tough cookie to rack. You'd have to get something made for it or just use a shelf and tie it down somehow.

But I'm listening to "Before T.C.S." right now, and whew- damn it sounds amazing!

[Snerek]

i'm rocking this beautiful beast http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-SCHELITE5.html

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by Snerek

i'm rocking this beautiful beast http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-SCHELITE5.html

Yeah EMG HZ's are not the best thing to try and cop Fonzie's tone!
Believe me, I used to have a set on my old Spector Legend 5. May consider a Bart replacement and that'll get you closer. He used Bart setups (not sure of the pres tho) on all of his older basses to get that smooth "burp" that they're so well known for.

[iplaybassguitar]

scoop your mids more maybe?
that will give you kind of the hollow tone you were talking about.

[Snerek]

Originally Posted by iplaybassguitar

scoop your mids more maybe?
that will give you kind of the hollow tone you were talking about.

my 4 pro amp came with the 9 band graphic eq.. and i must say i have very little knowledge in using it.. any advice?

when you say scoop my mids? does that mean lower?

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by Snerek

my 4 pro amp came with the 9 band graphic eq.. and i must say i have very little knowledge in using it.. any advice?

when you say scoop my mids? does that mean lower?

Stefan uses his 4Pro to power his 2x15 cab so it may be eq'd a little different, but to paraphrase how he EQ's now,..
boost the lows, dip just a little in the mids, and be about even on the treble. With that 9-band EQ, picture that in your mind and see if it helps any, cause I know he runs his EQ's on both Ampeg heads.

[BuffaloBob4343]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

And I've got the setup he used to record "Before These Crowded Streets" which is IMO the best tone he's had, even if it was a little buried.

That Thumb 6 was just, beyond words.

I am a huge Fonz and DMB fan myself. I think BTCS was probably their best ever, although I really dig Stand UP as well (OK, I really love them all, but those two stand out for me). The bass line in Dreaming Tree is just awesome. I plan to learn that one one of these days.

As much as I love Stefan's playing and recorded sound, I have found myself more often than not highly disappointed in his gig sound. It always sounds way too muddy and the only time he really cuts is when most of the other instruments are at rest. This frustrates me generally as a bass player, and even more so because Stefan does some really great nuanced things and they get completely buried in the live mix most of the time.

Lately, in addition to his Fleas, he has been playing a really sweet Ken Smith sixer and his Dolphin seems to have made a comeback. My favorite bass he plays though is his bubinga Quantum 5 fretless. That thing sounds so sweet.

[iplaybassguitar]

Originally Posted by Snerek

my 4 pro amp came with the 9 band graphic eq.. and i must say i have very little knowledge in using it.. any advice?

when you say scoop my mids? does that mean lower?

scooping the mids is when you turn down the mids and turn up the bass...if im thinking right, your head has the bass, middle, and trable knobs, and then it has that graphic eq with the little levers?

if i am right, try setting your knobs flat(all around 12 o'clock, the bass, middle, and treble ones only, not aster, gain or anything)

now arrange the eq lever things so it looks like a smile, with the left and right at the top, going in a curve downward.

test out the tone there, it probably wont be perfect, or exactly what you want, but it will give you a good place to start.

make small adjustments to both the knobs and the other eq till you find what you want.

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBob4343

I am a huge Fonz and DMB fan myself. I think BTCS was probably their best ever, although I really dig Stand UP as well (OK, I really love them all, but those two stand out for me). The bass line in Dreaming Tree is just awesome. I plan to learn that one one of these days.

As much as I love Stefan's playing and recorded sound, I have found myself more often than not highly disappointed in his gig sound. It always sounds way too muddy and the only time he really cuts is when most of the other instruments are at rest. This frustrates me generally as a bass player, and even more so because Stefan does some really great nuanced things and they get completely buried in the live mix most of the time.

Lately, in addition to his Fleas, he has been playing a really sweet Ken Smith sixer and his Dolphin seems to have made a comeback. My favorite bass he plays though is his bubinga Quantum 5 fretless. That thing sounds so sweet.

I'm with you on that one! I used to think the guy was just getting blown up because he simply was in DMB and when I started college in 2000, all my friends were like "You have GOT to check him out!" but I was way into my Incubus and heavy stuff mode, and was more than a tad snobby at their stuff, as I'd only heard "Crash Into Me" and "Space Between" had just been released as a single. I was like really, this guy? I can do that crap!

Then someone made me watch the "Listener Supported" DVD in '02. I've been a lifelong convert ever since!! I think because on albums like "UtTaD", "Crash" and "BTCS" his signal is SO buried, and unless you have a good stereo to EQ up his signal, you miss out on SOOO much, because like you said, he's definitely all about the nuances as opposed to coming out and doing an in your face Jaco or Wooten thing, because he really could if he wanted! He's got the chops.

I'd like to hear those first 3 re-mixed honestly. I'd buy them again with a little more even across the board mastering. Again his tone on "BTCS" where it was mostly recorded with that Thumb 6 is arguably one of my top 5's EVER. I like the mixing on "Busted Stuff" the best to be honest.

I'm about 50/50 on his live tone personally. "L.S." he gets buried at times, but I EQ it out on my receiver, and I can pick up a lot more notes which makes it 10 times more fun for me! Also not only is he fighting with Carter for the low end, he's got four (and now five with Rashawn Ross!) other guys all in his range so to speak which is a lot to cut through. Now I know why he used to be so deep-bassy so he could just get underneath it all.

Anyhow, that API preamp is still on eBay, and I just found a 1U horizontal rackmount unit for it... Divert my eyes, please!

[BuffaloBob4343]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

I'm about 50/50 on his live tone personally. "L.S." he gets buried at times, but I EQ it out on my receiver, and I can pick up a lot more notes which makes it 10 times more fun for me! Also not only is he fighting with Carter for the low end, he's got four (and now five with Rashawn Ross!) other guys all in his range so to speak which is a lot to cut through. Now I know why he used to be so deep-bassy so he could just get underneath it all.

Actually, I like his live tone "as recorded" because I think they use the signal into the board and they can mix it up. It is at the actual shows that he just gets buried.

And you are right, that's gotta be a tough live mix to EQ, but it still just annoys me as a bass player and as a fan of the Fonz. When I'm at the shows, I want to hear him!

[Snerek]

what is everyones opinion on the EMG's pickups i have in my bass?


personally i love them, i get great tone all around.. i just need to work on my EQ IMO

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by Snerek

what is everyones opinion on the EMG's pickups i have in my bass?


personally i love them, i get great tone all around.. i just need to work on my EQ IMO

IMHO, I didn't like the HZ's at all. I realize they're a great "budget" pickup with "EMG" on them, which makes them pretty good, but for the tone you're after, they're totally in the polar opposite direction. They were much too trebly for me.

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBob4343

Actually, I like his live tone "as recorded" because I think they use the signal into the board and they can mix it up. It is at the actual shows that he just gets buried.

And you are right, that's gotta be a tough live mix to EQ, but it still just annoys me as a bass player and as a fan of the Fonz. When I'm at the shows, I want to hear him!

Yeah, I noticed that a bit too this summer.

Funny thing was, it was only when he was using his Dolphin and Ken Smith.
The second he either brought out the Flea 5 or fretless Q6- boom!
It was like they turned him on in the mix or something. Night and day differences.

[JimmyM]

I saw the DMB last August in Tampa, and it was the worst sound I have ever heard at a concert. Ever. Don't know if it was their fault, as the amphitheatre there has a 96 db ordinance that they refuse to allow anyone to violate. Why the hell would a they book concerts at an amphitheatre if you can't turn the sound up enough to where people don't have to strain to hear? But anyway, Stefan's basses sounded horrible.

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I saw the DMB last August in Tampa, and it was the worst sound I have ever heard at a concert. Ever. Don't know if it was their fault, as the amphitheatre there has a 96 db ordinance that they refuse to allow anyone to violate. Why the hell would a they book concerts at an amphitheatre if you can't turn the sound up enough to where people don't have to strain to hear? But anyway, Stefan's basses sounded horrible.

96db ordinance? Jeez, we get louder than that in church!
What that really means though is just turn off all the subwoofers, which means no bass in the PA...