Transcribing?

[DannyTheRed]

My bass teacher tells me that learning a bassline by ear is a really good skill to get good at. So i've been trying it with zeppelin and stuff, and i was wondering if anyone had any tips or tricks they use for this?

It seems really hard to hear the bass on most of the tracks, they are all clouded by guitar and drums. I got the Tascam Bass trainer to try and help this, but they still seem really clouded. Is it just my ear? is there a way to practice this?

Thanks!
-Danny

[Kruton]

Well technically it doesn't have to be just the bass your transcribing. You could play a guitar lick or maybe a tuba line or something. For Instance I could listen to someone sing "Somewhere over the Rainbow" and then play it. Side note: Learning some theory provides helpful hints alot of the time.

[DaveAceofBass]

Zeppelin is not the best to transcribe note for note. Often times JPJ was just jamming on the chords. However, there are some key licks you can pull from every tune. Try to figure out when it is jamming and when it is important riffs. Some great tunes to transcribe note for note by Zeppelin would be "What is and What Should Never Be", "Hearbreaker", and "Ramble On". A tune like "Lemon Song" has an opening riff that is great to transcribe, then learn some ways of jamming on the changes like later in the tune. Take some phrases, but don't be overly concerned with transcribing it all note for note. There might be a time when you will transcribe and entire tune note for note, and even write it out and analyze. That is a great way to really study. But, that's not a good goal for beginners, or even someone who wants to learn a volume of tunes. Determine the really important parts to know the exact line, and the parts where the changes are enough. Hope that helps.

[thewanderer24]

Originally Posted by DaveAceofBass

Zeppelin is not the best to transcribe note for note. Often times JPJ was just jamming on the chords. However, there are some key licks you can pull from every tune. Try to figure out when it is jamming and when it is important riffs. Some great tunes to transcribe note for note by Zeppelin would be "What is and What Should Never Be", "Hearbreaker", and "Ramble On". A tune like "Lemon Song" has an opening riff that is great to transcribe, then learn some ways of jamming on the changes like later in the tune. Take some phrases, but don't be overly concerned with transcribing it all note for note. There might be a time when you will transcribe and entire tune note for note, and even write it out and analyze. That is a great way to really study. But, that's not a good goal for beginners, or even someone who wants to learn a volume of tunes. Determine the really important parts to know the exact line, and the parts where the changes are enough. Hope that helps.

+100

If you aren't good/experienced at transcribing, you need to start by learning how to find the groove and the changes. If you are playing with other people, it's much more important that you get the groove dead on and know the changes than it is to play every part note for note perfect.

You'll find that the more transcribing you do, the better you'll get at it.

Also, as you get good at it, you'll find there's a lot of times, you really don't care to learn note for note versions. You just want the basic idea. Especially if you have to learn a lot of songs in a short amount of time.

[RichGlass]

the computer programs 'Transcribe' and 'Slowgold' can be manipulated so you can hear the bass easier.

[James S]

My bass teacher tells me that learning a bassline by ear is a really good skill to get good at

GOOD teacher!

[daffy]

If you like Zep then go for songs like "Dazed and Confused", "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You", "Rock and Roll" and the bluesy ones they do but I would agree that JPJ is a tough one to start with. You may not like some of the music but most top 40 songs are fairly straightforward, as are most blues songs. Also certain bands are easier than others - U2 is easier than RHCP for instance.

Secondly, get yourself a good set of monitor headphones with decent bass extension. I have a set of Sony MDR-7506 which I bought on the recommendation of TalkBass guys and they are absolutely fantastic for an OK price (beware - they are not your mama's headphones) - it makes a massive difference to the 'muddy' sound you mention.

Thirdly, make sure you are dead in tune before you start. Surprising I have to say it but it's a common problem.

Fourthly, you don't have to start at the beginning of a lick or song. The hardest part is often just finding that one note to bounce off and it does not have to be at the start of the song. Find a note, then find the key of the song and play a scale in that key a few times. That will 'tune' your ear into the sounds. Don't just play the scale up and down, play it in thirds as well to get used to the intervals. Then go back and try to pick the notes leading up to and after the one you figured out.

Fifthly, don't know if you have heard of key centres yet but songs don't always sit in one scale, they jump around a bit. Once you find a key centre you will be able to work out quite a bit of the song, but if you find that things are not working out as easily for a particular part of the music, go note hunting again - they may have changed key centre.

Finally, remember that most bass players are not Vic Wooten or Stanley Clarke and they will have similar habits to you - the notes you need will often be under your fingers and you will mostly be able to stay in one position for a while. Most blues songs only have one position shift tops!!

Good luck - it does get much easier as you practice. I play every Wednesday night in a band that does not rehearse - I have ended up playing songs I have only ever heard on the radio, and we play requests that people shout out. Sometimes we even play originals that one of the guys have made up and I have to either read the guitarist's fingers or pick the chords by ear - the only rule is that at least one of us has to know what they are doing!!

[cowsgomoo]

a lot of it is just practice and ear training, but it gets easier the more you transcribe a particular bass player because none of them have an infinite vocabulary and you'll hear the same things popping up again & again...

sometimes even whole bars, e.g. John Paul Jones has a particular little descending phrase that he used on 'Good Times Bad Times' (after the 1st chorus) that is virtually identical to one he uses in his solo noodley section in 'The Lemon Song' to make a change from I to IV

but you can help yourself in other ways, i.e. if you use a program like Wavelab you can isolate different sections and loop them over and over... sometimes i've had to zoom right down to one 16th note and looped it just to pick out 1 bass note... with Wavelab you can also slow down a section without changing the pitch, which is useful

if you're a big Zep head try Led Zeppelin II.... the bass is as loud in the mix as you could reasonably ask for, and the bass playing is superb.. it's the best Zep album for bass in my opinion, and i'm beginning to feel guilty for not having any on my website (must fix that)

[pocketmonster]

This idea seems counterintuitive, but try listening to the music on a system that has relatively poor low frequency response. Strong fundamentals on bass can sound muddy because our hearing isn't all that good down in those frequencies, so hearing the bass line where the overtones are louder compared to the fundamental can actually help your ear find the notes.

[WillPlay4Food]

The Tascam bass trainer (2nd edition) is a great piece of kit and will help immensely with what you're trying to do. I'm actually using it to work out some Guns-n-Roses tunes right now.

The Tascam has a bass boost/enhance feature to emphasize the lower sonic registers. Turn this feature on. Check out your manual if you have to, this will help bring out the bass in a song.

The Tascam can also speed up & slow down songs without affecting pitch (you can allow it to affect pitch if you want but that's probably not what you're looking for in this case). You can slow it down to 50% of normal speed or speed it up to 16% faster then normal speed (perfect for making sure you'll be able to play the song well in a situation where the adrenaline's pumping and tens/hundreds/thousands of people are screaming for you to play).

The last thing is the Tascam has a loop feature. You can mark a starting and ending point in a song and the Tascam will just play the part in between the in and out points as long as you want it to. This has helped me greatly with nailing those hard to perfect portions of a song. This also allows you to concentrate and the parts you need to perfect without having to play the 2:30 before the part that's driving you mad which makes your practice time more effective because you go straight to the part you need to practice.

[labgnat]

Originally Posted by WillPlay4Food

The Tascam bass trainer (2nd edition) is a great piece of kit and will help immensely with what you're trying to do. I'm actually using it to work out some Guns-n-Roses tunes right now.

The Tascam has a bass boost/enhance feature to emphasize the lower sonic registers. Turn this feature on. Check out your manual if you have to, this will help bring out the bass in a song.

The Tascam can also speed up & slow down songs without affecting pitch (you can allow it to affect pitch if you want but that's probably not what you're looking for in this case). You can slow it down to 50% of normal speed or speed it up to 16% faster then normal speed (perfect for making sure you'll be able to play the song well in a situation where the adrenaline's pumping and tens/hundreds/thousands of people are screaming for you to play).

The last thing is the Tascam has a loop feature. You can mark a starting and ending point in a song and the Tascam will just play the part in between the in and out points as long as you want it to. This has helped me greatly with nailing those hard to perfect portions of a song. This also allows you to concentrate and the parts you need to perfect without having to play the 2:30 before the part that's driving you mad which makes your practice time more effective because you go straight to the part you need to practice.

my former bass teacher used one of those, it's a freaking sweet tool, i'd love to have one, i'm not really patient enough to figure out songs myself tho